Help please!! Ich or black ich!?

vetteguy53081 · Jun 22, 2022

Peepers said:
So you're saying I should also dump all of my copper water and start over in qt to make sure I do it right. Or is the better option be dose display with prazi first and then transfer to qt with copper? If so, how long should I dose display with prazi???

No, follow what Jay recommendeed. You asked about praxi in display. Address ich. You can if fish arent distressed and breathing heavy give them a 5 min freshwater dip which will offer temporary relief with flukes and some may fall off fish allowing you to confirm flukes which will look like fish scales or sesame seeds. Note though, its Not a cure

Peepers · Jun 22, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
No- not sufficient. It is removing organic waste icreasing contain but you want to break surface air - using pump and airstone ( even a basic from walmart)

Ok. I appreciate your help. I will start .icing all fish to qt in the cupramine. If I'm only at the .4 and can't test again until Friday, will it be beneficial at all to start moving into qt if it's not at .5 yet? Or will it be more stress than good?

vetteguy53081 · Jun 22, 2022

Peepers said:
Ok. I appreciate your help. I will start .icing all fish to qt in the cupramine. If I'm only at the .4 and can't test again until Friday, will it be beneficial at all to start moving into qt if it's not at .5 yet? Or will it be more stress than good?

You can start them in the .4

Like a car, a little oil is better than no oil at all. Any exposure to copper helps but full level will work on cure

Peepers · Jun 22, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
No- not sufficient. It is removing organic waste icreasing contain but you want to break surface air - using pump and airstone ( even a basic from walmart)

Ok. Thank you so much! Will start by getting foxface in tomorrow morning! You all have been extremely helpful.

Peepers · Jun 22, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
You can start them in the .4

Like a car, a little oil is better than no oil at all. Any exposure to copper helps but full level will work on cure

Will an ammonia lock type product be ok to help with ammonia as well as water changes?

vetteguy53081 · Jun 22, 2022

Peepers said:
Will an ammonia lock type product be ok to help with ammonia as well as water changes?

No- theyre alternatives- not solutions. Water changes reduce ammonia content

Peepers · Jun 23, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
No- theyre alternatives- not solutions. Water changes reduce ammonia content

Just another couple pics to maybe help confirm diagnosis. Got a few nice ones this morning.

vetteguy53081 · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
Just another couple pics to maybe help confirm diagnosis. Got a few nice ones this morning.

Pics are heavy blue but looking at eyes, seems more like flukes and should then be treated with praziquantel aka prazi pro for 8 day interval in quarantine and water change followed by one more 8 day interval
Add air stone for added oxygen as prazi reduces appetite and oxygen

Peepers · Jun 23, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
Pics are heavy blue but looking at eyes, seems more like flukes and should then be treated with praziquantel aka prazi pro for 8 day interval in quarantine and water change followed by one more 8 day interval
Add air stone for added oxygen as prazi reduces appetite and oxygen

So, dump all my copper qt water?

Peepers · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
So, dump all my copper qt water

vetteguy53081 said:
Pics are heavy blue but looking at eyes, seems more like flukes and should then be treated with praziquantel aka prazi pro for 8 day interval in quarantine and water change followed by one more 8 day interval
Add air stone for added oxygen as prazi reduces appetite and oxygen

I see so many threads saying you can run prazi with cupramine. Would hate to start my qt over again.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
I see so many threads saying you can run prazi with cupramine. Would hate to start my qt over again.

People run copper power or coppersafe with prazi, but I'm not sure about Cupramine. Since you are at .4, you can probably risk it. I would add aeration to the tank itself and not rely just on the bubbles in the skimmer.

Jay

LeftyReefer · Jun 23, 2022

The prazi will make your skimmer go nuts. When I dose prazi to a tank with a skimmer, I leave the skimmer online so that it is helping oxygenate the water, but adjust the skimmer so it isn't overflowing, or just let it overflow back into the sump. After a couple days, as the prazi breaks down, your skimmer will go back to acting/skimming like normal. If not, a water change will help.

There isn't any issue treating with copper and prazi at the same time other than there is some indication that the presence of copper actually reduces the effectiveness of praziquantel, so ideally it is used on it's own, without copper present, but it will work just fine with copper too. just not quite as effective when used in combo with copper. You can safely use prazi with cupramine and also the chelated coppers like copper safe and copper power. You do NOT want to use ammonia reducers with cupramine though... if ammonia is an issue, do a water change, do not add ammonia reducers. There have been some reports that these ammonia reducing products don't actually do what they say, and the added risk that they might cause issues with copper has caused me to stop using them all together. Ammonia is easy enough to control via water changes, so I don't use ammonia reducers at all.

When I QT my fish, I treat them for 30 days with copper (copper power) and I also hit them with repeated prazipro treatments the whole 30 days. I give them a prazi treatment on day 1, again on day 9, again on day 17, etc.... until they are done with the copper treatment, then start observation.

good luck!

vetteguy53081 · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
I see so many threads saying you can run prazi with cupramine. Would hate to start my qt over again.

Cupramine is questionable but since low, keep an eye on fish if mixed and again- add aeration

Peepers · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
So you're saying I should also dump all of my copper water and start over in qt to make sure I do it right. Or is the better option be dose display with prazi first and then transfer to qt with copper? If so, how long should I dose display with prazi???

So almost all my fish are in my qt. Neon dottyback is being a pain. Lol. And my yellow watchmen goby lives under my biggest rock with his pistol shrimp mate. Not going to be fun. I did mess up a bit and dosed at full dose of prazipro. Got a aerator and a long stone. So, after all fish have been transfered, how long do I treat with the cupramine, 30 days? The prazipro I've read is a dose today, and a dose in a week. Is that correct?

Peepers · Jun 23, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
Cupramine is questionable but since low, keep an eye on fish if mixed and again- add aeration

Also, when I do water changes in case of ammonia, how much should I change at a time. I'm using a 60 gallon qt.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
So almost all my fish are in my qt. Neon dottyback is being a pain. Lol. And my yellow watchmen goby lives under my biggest rock with his pistol shrimp mate. Not going to be fun. I did mess up a bit and dosed at full dose of prazipro. Got a aerator and a long stone. So, after all fish have been transfered, how long do I treat with the cupramine, 30 days? The prazipro I've read is a dose today, and a dose in a week. Is that correct?

Yes - 30 days copper. I dose prazi 9 days apart.
Jay

Jay Hemdal · Jun 23, 2022

Peepers said:
Also, when I do water changes in case of ammonia, how much should I change at a time. I'm using a 60 gallon qt.

It’s proportional, but ammonia also may continue to increase after the water change. That leads to people saying “I changed 25% of the water but the ammonia is the same the next day”.
You want to keep the ammonia level below 0.25 ppm through water changes or bacteria in a bottle. Do NOT use prime or other ammonia neutralizers, they can react with Cupramine and kill the fish.
Jay

Peepers · Jun 23, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
It’s proportional, but ammonia also may continue to increase after the water change. That leads to people saying “I changed 25% of the water but the ammonia is the same the next day”.
You want to keep the ammonia level below 0.25 ppm through water changes or bacteria in a bottle. Do NOT use prime or other ammonia neutralizers, they can react with Cupramine and kill the fish.
Jay

"Bacteria in a bottle"? Like Dr Tim's one and only, or what?