Help with electrical setup

[bh750]

I'm not sure how old your house is, but have you checked to see if your panel breakers are AFCI? AFCI became required by code in 2002 in some residential applications so you may already have it. If your breaker box has a main breaker at the top it could be AFCI. If it is, it protects the entire house.
AFCI outlets aren't a bad idea but I prefer using AFCI at the power panels to protect the wiring inside the outlets, not just the loads.

Ah, ok. Didnt know that. My house was built in the tail end of 2001. But I'll go home tonight and check the main breaker.

Bigger wire is good, you'll have less resistance and it will shed heat better. It doesn't matter if you're using 12AWG wire, and your receptacles are on a 15 amp circuit with 14/2 wire either because the 12AWG will carry more current but the 15 amp breaker will still trip at its threshold even though 12AWG will carry 20-25 amps technically. @Brew12 is on point with NOT using 16AWG wire, I won't even use that on one run of LED Christmas lights [emoji23]. Those small drop cords running everywhere at people's houses scare the devil out of me. 12/3 is a good choice in my opinion as well. Plan the work and work the plan, take it slow. Don't rush into it and do not use a razor knife to strip the outer jacket of your diy drop cord, you will cut through the wire jacket all the way to the copper. Use a good sharp knife and go easy you do not have to cut all the way through the outer jacket just get real close and then bend it and it will break loose and then pull it off the end.

Ok will do just that. Am going to start planning it tonight. Will take pics too to show everyone what I have and where it will end up. thanks for the advice!

 

[MagisterDamask]

Good luck, we like pictures [emoji16]

 

[p1n]

Ok good point. The one end will be at my sump for sure. good idea. So I'll use the higher end water tight ones there.

While I'm at it, what about replacing my GFIC outlets with GFIC/AFCI outlets? Picked up on that with all my reading here. My existing outlets are over 10 years old, or about that, and have tripped couple times a year at most.

You should check into weather resistant gfci, it will have a wr on the device itself. They come with stainless steel screws, thats what we install in docks and outside area's

 

[p1n]

I would definitely use all 12awg cause it is rated for 20 amps and breakers will usually trip around 80% of the their load and if they dont trip the breaker will get hot

 

[MagisterDamask]

I don't believe they trip at 80%, but they can only be used at 80% of their rated load if it has an 80% load that will run continuously for three hours or longer, but can be used at 100% if the load will last less than three hours. An 100% rated circuit breaker is just that, it can be used up to 100% continuously no matter what.

 

[bh750]

I promised some pictures...

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what I'm working with. Tank is on the right, 6 feet long. On the fart wall I've mounted a "power center" which is nothing more than DJ power strips and my apex modules mounted on some painted birch. It looks nice in person. I ripped out my old power station which was a cabinet I built with outlets and switches on the front. It was in the gap there and closer to the floor. wires behind it were a mess. My plan is to build a series of stacked 10 gallon tanks in that space there to serve as acclimation tanks and refugiums.

A closer look of each area


Power Center

Gap with where the power station used to be and where I want to build 4 x 10 gallon tanks stacked high.

The mess of wires!
(you'll note I had/have 4 duplex gang outlets also previous wired up just dangling there until I reattach them to that left wall. Yikes!

So this is what I'm thinking:

- Relocate Apex Energy Bar to under the sump, mounted on left inside wall. Probably put a cover over it. Connect most of my equipment to it.

- Manufacture several DIY cords for the rest. Run them to DJ switches. Weather resistant on the sump end, regular on the power center end. Tested as per above. Sump end connections wrapped in elect tape.

- Enclose the cords running across the "gap" in some sort of housing to keep them dry.

Finished look showing the placement of the tanks, plumbed together, overflow fed from display tank.

 

[Brew12]

The mess of wires!
(you'll note I had/have 4 duplex gang outlets also previous wired up just dangling there until I reattach them to that left wall. Yikes!

You are the reason that selling a home requires an electrical inspection!!!

Is there a reason you don't want to use pre-made cords?. You can incorporate a loop in the cord where your drip loop is for any extra length. You can easily find them in 3ft, 6ft and 8ft lengths. Not only will it be faster and have sealed ends but it will be much cheaper.

On the fart wall I've mounted a "power center"

Umm... please tell me you call it that because it is adjacent to a bathroom!! Nevermind.. I don't want to know!

 

[bh750]

You are the reason that selling a home requires an electrical inspection!!!

LOL! I know. Way too much DIY. Actually I am worried and have always wanted to hire an electrician or home inspector to come into my home and call out problems. Not for the purpose of selling but solely for safety.

Is there a reason you don't want to use pre-made cords?. You can incorporate a loop in the cord where your drip loop is for any extra length. You can easily find them in 3ft, 6ft and 8ft lengths. Not only will it be faster and have sealed ends but it will be much cheaper.

Ok so the sole reason is all the Electric Experts over at doityourself dot com say extension cords are not safe for long term solutions. All the reasons you posted earlier PLUS the fact that any extra wire that's coiled they could overheat and cause a fire. I'm trying to do this the safest way.

Umm... please tell me you call it that because it is adjacent to a bathroom!! Nevermind.. I don't want to know!

HaHa. No then it would be called the "mother load". This is all in my basement. Right to the left is my circuit panel for the house.

 

[Brew12]

Ok so the sole reason is all the Electric Experts over at doityourself dot com say extension cords are not safe for long term solutions. All the reasons you posted earlier PLUS the fact that any extra wire that's coiled they could overheat and cause a fire. I'm trying to do this the safest way.

It will be safer to use pre-made cords than making them yourself. Just make sure there is a little air flow and a coil or 2 will be just fine. The average aquarium load is under 2 amps and the cords will generate very little heat. Your lights and chiller (if you use one) are most likely the only large loads on your tank. My 120g system with heaters, LED's, return pump, skimmer, 2 MP40's and a small Tunze powerhead peaks at 7 amps total. I could run the thing on a single extension cord very safely. The fact you are dividing up the load between multiple cords makes it even safer.

HaHa. No then it would be called the "mother load". This is all in my basement. Right to the left is my circuit panel for the house.

Well OK then!!!! I should have known better than to ask about a "fart wall"!

 

[bh750]

It will be safer to use pre-made cords than making them yourself. Just make sure there is a little air flow and a coil or 2 will be just fine. The average aquarium load is under 2 amps and the cords will generate very little heat. Your lights and chiller (if you use one) are most likely the only large loads on your tank. My 120g system with heaters, LED's, return pump, skimmer, 2 MP40's and a small Tunze powerhead peaks at 7 amps total. I could run the thing on a single extension cord very safely. The fact you are dividing up the load between multiple cords makes it even safer.

Really? That makes me feel alot better. Not looking to create more work and cost. Was just so scared of ext cords. FWIW my system does peak at 12 AMPS but its only for about 15 mins at a time, presumably when one of my 800W heaters turns on. Rest of the time it hums at < 3 Amps. That doesnt include the few items I dont have on my apex. And I have LED lighting which is killer.

Sigh, okay. I'll give this a try. I just worry when other experts say NEVER use ext cords long term. I get what youre saying in that most cases are things I'm not or never would do with a tank. So my only last concern was just about the potential to overheat and supposedly cheap wiring used by extension cords, wiring not meant for long term use?

Well OK then!!!! I should have known better than to ask about a "fart wall"!

No but we did have a "boogie wall" in college! True story. (Wow we're really going low brow here. )

 

[Brew12]

FWIW my system does peak at 12 AMPS but its only for about 15 mins at a time, presumably when one of my 800W heaters turns on.

That is a serious heater! It will draw close to 7 amps. Especially for those heaters and your lights, make sure you use outdoor rated, heavy duty extension cords. You can use 16/3 cords but I would avoid the 18/3. No indoor cords and no ungrounded cords and you should be fine.

I just worry when other experts say NEVER use ext cords long term.

It is an OSHA violation to use extension cords in place of permanent power. In our homes, we don't have to worry about OSHA regs. As long as you use good quality cords and route the correctly, you should be fine. Where people get in the most trouble is using them outside long term. The sun can make the cable jacket brittle and crack off exposing bare wire.

No but we did have a "boogie wall" in college! True story. (Wow we're really going low brow here. )

Just remember, you started it!!!

On the fart wall I've mounted

 

[Engloid]

Premade extension cords aren't all that great sometimes either. I put one on my tank that was one of the big orange ones. It was a new one. Within a month, I got a call at work and my house was on fire. Everything that didn't get water damage got smoke damage. We spent 8-9 months in a hotel. The fire busted my fish tank, which then put the fire out, but flooded the entire house. It was on the upper level, so the water went through to the lower one, ruining walls, ceilings, and flooring. Overall, insurance paid out over $160,000. They never did replace a lot of the things we had before. My advice: Don't buy Travelers Insurance. They told us to throw away a lot of stuff, then denied it later. Shady folks. No upper management to take complaints to. They will "escalate" to one person, then say that they can't even contact anybody higher in the company...but they will have the same guy that screwed you over call back and gripe to you for complaining about him.

 

[bh750]

That is a serious heater! It will draw close to 7 amps. Especially for those heaters and your lights, make sure you use outdoor rated, heavy duty extension cords. You can use 16/3 cords but I would avoid the 18/3. No indoor cords and no ungrounded cords and you should be fine.

I actually have an 800W and a 500W heater on my 220. Right now they're both plugged into the APEX. Is that ok? Also I was gonna go 14/3 gauge on the cords to be extra safe.

It is an OSHA violation to use extension cords in place of permanent power. In our homes, we don't have to worry about OSHA regs. As long as you use good quality cords and route the correctly, you should be fine. Where people get in the most trouble is using them outside long term. The sun can make the cable jacket brittle and crack off exposing bare wire.

Gotcha. makes sense.

Just remember, you started it!!!

OMG, just went back and saw it. Had no idea! HAHAHAHA. Ooops.

Premade extension cords aren't all that great sometimes either. I put one on my tank that was one of the big orange ones. It was a new one. Within a month, I got a call at work and my house was on fire. Everything that didn't get water damage got smoke damage. We spent 8-9 months in a hotel. The fire busted my fish tank, which then put the fire out, but flooded the entire house. It was on the upper level, so the water went through to the lower one, ruining walls, ceilings, and flooring. Overall, insurance paid out over $160,000. They never did replace a lot of the things we had before. My advice: Don't buy Travelers Insurance. They told us to throw away a lot of stuff, then denied it later. Shady folks. No upper management to take complaints to. They will "escalate" to one person, then say that they can't even contact anybody higher in the company...but they will have the same guy that screwed you over call back and gripe to you for complaining about him.

See now this is what scares me like nothing else and why I'm doing this. Engloid that is horrible!! I don't think I could live with myself if I damaged my home or family b/c of this. Was your cord overloaded, underrated or not UL listed by any chance?

 

[bh750]

BTW, here's a picture of my breaker box and main breaker. How do I know if its AFCI? I dont see it printed anywhere...

 

[Engloid]

Its not. I have heard afci isnt all its cracked up to be. Ever seen the arc inside a drill motor when you use it? The same happens in a vacuum cleaner and any motor with brushes. I have heard that arc will trip an afci breaker.

 

[Engloid]

See now this is what scares me like nothing else and why I'm doing this. Engloid that is horrible!! I don't think I could live with myself if I damaged my home or family b/c of this. Was your cord overloaded, underrated or not UL listed by any chance?

I was running a metal halide light setup off of it. The light had three 250w bulbs in it. Nothing more was on that cord. It probably was a UL rated cord. Most of the big orange ones are. Isn't it getting hard to even find cords that are not UL rated?

In my case, the police investigator, fire dept, and insurance all agreed that this was just a fluke, and not really anybody was at fault. IOW, I don't think they tried to get their money back from the cord manufacturer or the light manufacturer.

Overall, it was a horrible experience. However, it was definitely a lesson on priorities. It reinforced to us that the things we care the most about are the things we cannot buy. We value our family and our happiness much more than anything we can buy.

 

[MagisterDamask]

Its not. I have heard afci isnt all its cracked up to be. Ever seen the arc inside a drill motor when you use it? The same happens in a vacuum cleaner and any motor with brushes. I have heard that arc will trip an afci breaker.

The arc inside some of the small motors like the ones you mentioned will, sometimes. It's hit or miss based on quality of manufacturing of the circuit breaker, how violent the arc inside the motor is, etc. I installed arc fault circuit breakers on the appropriate circuits in my house when I wired it, in seven years I've had to replace two of them. The living room circuit kept tripping after about 4 years. It was at random though, no motors running in my living room. I pulled every cover off of ever box in the room and checked every connection, and everything was fine; I replaced the breaker with a new one and it hasn't tripped since unless I'm testing them.

I have used a rather large hammer drill or rotary hammer, and it tripped the breaker the second time I pushed the trigger. But the rotary hammer has high torque and a pretty violent arc when you look through the vent holes into the area where the brushes are. The common drill motor has never tripped mine and as far as I know my wife has never mentioned the vacuum tripping one.

Typically the AFCI breaker will have a TEST button and some small indicator lights that are normally off, and if you take the panel cover off there will be a white wire pigtail that's attached to it along with your hot wire (black or red). In an abnormal condition, the indicator lights will tell you if your fault was phase to ground or arc fault and mine remain illuminated until I reset the breaker to its normally closed position.

 

[jason2459]

I haven't had my CAFCI breakers pop once. My return and skimmer shutdown and turn back on 4 times a day.

They are much more reliable now and I highly suggest using them along with GFCI.

 

[bh750]

ok thanks, I'm pretty sure my main breaker is not AFCI. So something I will need to look into separately with an electrician.

So shopping for extension cords. Its tough to find high quality shorter length cords 10' and under.

I was thinking 14/3 to be safe. You think 16/3 is ok too?

 

[Brew12]

ok thanks, I'm pretty sure my main breaker is not AFCI. So something I will need to look into separately with an electrician.

So shopping for extension cords. Its tough to find high quality shorter length cords 10' and under.

I was thinking 14/3 to be safe. You think 16/3 is ok too?

16/3 will be fine.

Under the NEC Table 400.5(A) a SO cord (and most other flexible cord types) that are 16/3 with 2 current carrying conductors is rated to 13 Amps. Odds are you won't be anywhere near that amount of current.