Help with fish in my QT

[Gildo]

since luck does not accompany me, I create a single post for the problems that my fish will have in the QT.

I follow the current quarantine protocol in the featured post to the letter. QT 5.5 gallon coarse sponge filter, oxygenator, internal filter with sponges and plastic balls, various extra sponge pieces around the tank, seachem plate for ammonia, again on yellow.

I have 3 peach trees in the QT: very small foxface, small Labroides dimidiatus, and small/medium Ctenochaetus strigosus.

currently the fish are from 6 days with cooppersafe to 2.5 precise (hanna)

I have a very thin foxface, for 2 days I think I exaggerated with food, until yesterday everyone was lively, today he was breathing heavily, he was still, and also the Labroides dimidiatus, and in addition he has a new "I think infected wound" on his head Ctenochaetus strigosus was as always.

I made a cabio 50% (with copper already at 2.5) added a second small pump to give some movement and they seem to be better. (do not burst with health but move more than before.

I am attaching some photos for any advice
Thank you!

 

[vetteguy53081]

since luck does not accompany me, I create a single post for the problems that my fish will have in the QT.

I follow the current quarantine protocol in the featured post to the letter. QT 5.5 gallon coarse sponge filter, oxygenator, internal filter with sponges and plastic balls, various extra sponge pieces around the tank, seachem plate for ammonia, again on yellow.

I have 3 peach trees in the QT: very small foxface, small Labroides dimidiatus, and small/medium Ctenochaetus strigosus.

currently the fish are from 6 days with cooppersafe to 2.5 precise (hanna)

I have a very thin foxface, for 2 days I think I exaggerated with food, until yesterday everyone was lively, today he was breathing heavily, he was still, and also the Labroides dimidiatus, and in addition he has a new "I think infected wound" on his head Ctenochaetus strigosus was as always.

I made a cabio 50% (with copper already at 2.5) added a second small pump to give some movement and they seem to be better. (do not burst with health but move more than before.

I am attaching some photos for any advice
Thank you!

There is a bacterial issue going on here. The cleaner wrasse may have stemmed from an injury (you have threaded PVS which has sharp edges). I suspect an issue also with Water quality.
What are you treating tank with ?
What is ammonia and nitrate level and what test kit are you using ?
Are fish breathing normal or rapid ?

Add an airstone during treatment for added oxygen

 

[Weeb]

since luck does not accompany me, I create a single post for the problems that my fish will have in the QT.

I follow the current quarantine protocol in the featured post to the letter. QT 5.5 gallon coarse sponge filter, oxygenator, internal filter with sponges and plastic balls, various extra sponge pieces around the tank, seachem plate for ammonia, again on yellow.

I have 3 peach trees in the QT: very small foxface, small Labroides dimidiatus, and small/medium Ctenochaetus strigosus.

currently the fish are from 6 days with cooppersafe to 2.5 precise (hanna)

I have a very thin foxface, for 2 days I think I exaggerated with food, until yesterday everyone was lively, today he was breathing heavily, he was still, and also the Labroides dimidiatus, and in addition he has a new "I think infected wound" on his head Ctenochaetus strigosus was as always.

I made a cabio 50% (with copper already at 2.5) added a second small pump to give some movement and they seem to be better. (do not burst with health but move more than before.

I am attaching some photos for any advice
Thank you!

Are any of the fish eating? Eating what?

When caught from the wild the common cleaner wrasse, Labroides dimidiatus can be a difficult fish to get eating prepared foods. Mine would usually eat decapsulated brine shrimp eggs and I could get it interested in other foods from this point.

 

[Gildo]

There is a bacterial issue going on here. The cleaner wrasse may have stemmed from an injury (you have threaded PVS which has sharp edges). I suspect an issue also with Water quality.
What are you treating tank with ?
What is ammonia and nitrate level and what test kit are you using ?
Are fish breathing normal or rapid ?

Add an airstone during treatment for added oxygen

besides copper nothing,
seachem ammonia allert with 1 month of life, ok (yellow)
no3 after 50% change test nios: 15/20
followed your advice, porous stone at maximum power, internal filter too (of those sold together with these stupid aquariums) loaded with plastic bioballs and sponges, adding another die lift pump pointing upwards, and sponge filter with aerator.
improved breathing after water change, now the one who breathes faster is about 2 per second.

in fact the problems started after I exaggerated with feeding the firefox which arrived very thin.

Are any of the fish eating? Eating what?

When caught from the wild the common cleaner wrasse, Labroides dimidiatus can be a difficult fish to get eating prepared foods. Mine would usually eat decapsulated brine shrimp eggs and I could get it interested in other foods from this point.

spirulina the 2 herbivores, and for the labroides small doses of frozen only once a day, but he's not thin, foxface yes! I think they didn't feed him well in the shop now he eats but he is slow to chew

 

[Tamberav]

I would not put a tang, foxface, and a wrasse in a 5.5g. Water quality would be a pain to keep up, especially since the foxface looks like it needs lots of frequent feeding.

Seeing some bacterial issue and the tank size is not helping with that. I would put them in a 20 or 29 gallon. Siphon out leftover food. Last I looked, Petco had their sale going. The wrasse probably needs antibiotics at this point. Something broad spectrum that you can get ahold of without a long delay.

 

[vetteguy53081]

besides copper nothing,
seachem ammonia allert with 1 month of life, ok (yellow)
no3 after 50% change test nios: 15/20
followed your advice, porous stone at maximum power, internal filter too (of those sold together with these stupid aquariums) loaded with plastic bioballs and sponges, adding another die lift pump pointing upwards, and sponge filter with aerator.
improved breathing after water change, now the one who breathes faster is about 2 per second.

in fact the problems started after I exaggerated with feeding the firefox which arrived very thin.

spirulina the 2 herbivores, and for the labroides small doses of frozen only once a day, but he's not thin, foxface yes! I think they didn't feed him well in the shop now he eats but he is slow to chew

i would highly recommend taking a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and compare readings- then you'll know. I would also get at least a 10 gallon, preferably 20 gallon tank for QT as the current one is reducing oxygen and allowing quick fowling of water. Cleaner wrasse breath a little faster than most fish.
I will never trust a $7 badge or $25 master kit to sustain hundreds of dollars in livestock. get a salifert or Hanna test kit - YOUR FISH ARE WORTH THE COST

 

[Gildo]

Consiglio vivamente di portare un campione d'acqua in un negozio che NON utilizza i kit Api e confrontare le letture, quindi lo saprai. Avrei anche almeno un serbatoio da 10 galloni, preferibilmente da 20 galloni per QT poiché quello attuale riduce l'ossigeno e consente un rapido pollame dell'acqua. Il pesce pulitore respira un po' più velocemente della maggior parte dei pesci.
Non mi fiderò mai di un badge da $ 7 o di un master kit da $ 25 per sostenere centinaia di dollari in bestiame. prendi un kit di test salifert o Hanna - I TUOI PESCI VALENO IL COSTO

tutto chiaro,
Cerco di riprendermi il prima possibile. Minimo 20 galloni e un buon test dell'ammoniaca.
nel frattempo farò ancora qualche cambio d'acqua!

se l'infezione da labroides non migliora, e siccome dalle mie parti non vengono commercializzati medicinali ittici, potrebbe dirmi qualche principio attivo da ricercare nei medicinali umani o veterinari?
ad esempio ho trovato: Rifaximina, Fosfomicina, neomicina + bacitracina (solo neomicina no) o forse enrofloxacina con prescrizione medica, sulfamethoxazole 800 mg and trimethoprim 160 mg.

 

[vetteguy53081]

all clear,
I try to recover as soon as possible. Minimum a 20 gallon, and a good ammonia test.
in the meantime I'll do a few more water changes!

if the labroides infection does not improve, and since fish medicines are not marketed in my part, could you tell me some active ingredients to look for in human or veterinary medicines?
for example I found: Rifaximin, Fosfomycin, neomycin + bacitracin (only neomycin not) or perhaps enrofloxacin with prescription

What country are you in ?

 

[Gildo]

What country are you in ?

Italy.
here in Europe they have given a big squeeze to the use of medicines for ornamental fish, in fact now various companies have started to produce "natural antibiotics" based on herbs....

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

since luck does not accompany me, I create a single post for the problems that my fish will have in the QT.

I follow the current quarantine protocol in the featured post to the letter. QT 5.5 gallon coarse sponge filter, oxygenator, internal filter with sponges and plastic balls, various extra sponge pieces around the tank, seachem plate for ammonia, again on yellow.

I have 3 peach trees in the QT: very small foxface, small Labroides dimidiatus, and small/medium Ctenochaetus strigosus.

currently the fish are from 6 days with cooppersafe to 2.5 precise (hanna)

I have a very thin foxface, for 2 days I think I exaggerated with food, until yesterday everyone was lively, today he was breathing heavily, he was still, and also the Labroides dimidiatus, and in addition he has a new "I think infected wound" on his head Ctenochaetus strigosus was as always.

I made a cabio 50% (with copper already at 2.5) added a second small pump to give some movement and they seem to be better. (do not burst with health but move more than before.

I am attaching some photos for any advice
Thank you!

Did we discuss the potential issues of that very small quarantine tank in another thread?

The standard quarantine process is designed to reduce the chances of having issues with three main parasitic diseases; ich, velvet and flukes. it also helps isolate new fish for a period of time so their chance of bringing some other disease in is lessened.
The wrasse and the foxface don’t have signs of those parasitic issues, so they need to be handled differently, in addition to the quarantine process.
As said, cleaner wrasse can be very delicate, this one probably bumped its head on something.
The foxface is so skinny that I worry for its long term survival, that is very difficult to reverse.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I lost the english version of your message but for parasites, alternative would be Hyposalinity bringing salt level down to 1.009 for 30 days as well as for flukes.
Myxazin for bacteria and Tramazole for flukes also

 

[Gildo]

I lost the english version of your message but for parasites, alternative would be Hyposalinity bringing salt level down to 1.009 for 30 days as well as for flukes.
Myxazin for bacteria and Tramazole for flukes also

I screwed up editing the message from my cell phone and it retranslated English into Italian..... sorry!

however coppersafe and praziquantel (and 37% formalin which I hope I will never need) I managed to prucure them, antibiotics remain more complicated for me

the text was this:

"clear,
I try to recover as soon as possible. Minimum a 20 gallon, and a good ammonia test.
in the meantime I'll do a few more water changes!

if the labroides infection does not improve, and since fish medicines are not marketed in my part, could you tell me some active ingredients to look for in human or veterinary medicines?
for example I found: Rifaximin, Fosfomycin, neomycin + bacitracin (only neomycin not) or perhaps enrofloxacin (baytril) with prescription"

Did we discuss the potential issues of that very small quarantine tank in another thread?

The standard quarantine process is designed to reduce the chances of having issues with three main parasitic diseases; ich, velvet and flukes. it also helps isolate new fish for a period of time so their chance of bringing some other disease in is lessened.
The wrasse and the foxface don’t have signs of those parasitic issues, so they need to be handled differently, in addition to the quarantine process.
As said, cleaner wrasse can be very delicate, this one probably bumped its head on something.
The foxface is so skinny that I worry for its long term survival, that is very difficult to reverse.
Jay

yes! you advised me against a 2.5 G and the question of the uncycled QT, so I took a 5.5 and did the cycle.... but it was a stupid idea!
So the purchased fox is in very bad condition... too bad! if he passes the pharmacological quarantine I will still keep him in the QT, with little movement and overnourished!
meanwhile I hope the 26-gallon arrives as soon as possible

 

[vetteguy53081]

I screwed up editing the message from my cell phone and it retranslated English into Italian..... sorry!

however coppersafe and praziquantel (and 37% formalin which I hope I will never need) I managed to prucure them, antibiotics remain more complicated for me

the text was this:

"clear,
I try to recover as soon as possible. Minimum a 20 gallon, and a good ammonia test.
in the meantime I'll do a few more water changes!

if the labroides infection does not improve, and since fish medicines are not marketed in my part, could you tell me some active ingredients to look for in human or veterinary medicines?
for example I found: Rifaximin, Fosfomycin, neomycin + bacitracin (only neomycin not) or perhaps enrofloxacin (baytril) with prescription"


yes! you advised me against a 2.5 G and the question of the uncycled QT, so I took a 5.5 and did the cycle.... but it was a stupid idea!
So the purchased fox is in very bad condition... too bad! if he passes the pharmacological quarantine I will still keep him in the QT, with little movement and overnourished!
meanwhile I hope the 26-gallon arrives as soon as possible

Ingredients-
chloroquine phosphate - For ich, velvet, brooklynella, and uronema


Chelated copper - For ich and velvet treated at therapeutic dosage is 2.25-2.5ppm


praziquantel - treats flukes and worms


Acriflavine or malachite green - Treats bacterial issues

 

[Gildo]

Ingredients-
chloroquine phosphate - For ich, velvet, brooklynella, and uronema


Chelated copper - For ich and velvet treated at therapeutic dosage is 2.25-2.5ppm


praziquantel - treats flukes and worms


Acriflavine or malachite green - Treats bacterial issues

Thanks great!
Can acriflavine be dosed together with copper?

 

[MnFish1]

Its hard to go through all the replies - and combine them into a thought - so just looking at your OP and questions.

1. You foxface is in terrible condition - and its not a short term issue - it looks emaciated (extremely thin).
2. I do not think this is a bacterial issue - with the fox face - it's a long-term / collection issue. I.e. - fish should not lose weight this quickly.
3. Though you should probably have had a bigger tank - thats water under the bridge. The water level - assuming your ammonia, etc - are ok - is not an issue
4. There are several words in the OP that do not translate well into English - so it's unclear what you're doing exactly. Oxygenator - could be an airstone - or an oxydator.
5. I think you should focus on the other fish - as compared to the fox face. That fish IMHO - has a disease of some sort - It does not relate to the whole group.

Can you give an update - IMHO - poly-treating a bunch of fish with multiple medications is going to result in a no answer problem

 

[Gildo]

an airstone

fox face has already left us... sad! purchase error! (naively I thought of healing her) the other two are very scared and wary today.

I'll try to explain myself better: I use a large airstone, a Mini Submersible Water Pump halfway up the aquarium pointing upwards, a sponge air filter, an Internal Bio Filter filled with plastic bioballs, and a blue sponge. some blue sponge directly in the aquarium, 80/81 °F

 

[MnFish1]

fox face has already left us... sad! purchase error! (naively I thought of healing her) the other two are very scared and wary today.

I'll try to explain myself better: I use a large airstone, a Mini Submersible Water Pump halfway up the aquarium pointing upwards, a sponge air filter, an Internal Bio Filter filled with plastic bioballs, and a blue sponge. some blue sponge directly in the aquarium, 80/81 °F

Thanks!!! and sorry about your fish.
Besides being scary and wary - do they have any other symptoms? Are they getting better/worse - and what is in your water now. (medication wise)

 

[Gildo]

Thanks!!! and sorry about your fish.
Besides being scary and wary - do they have any other symptoms? Are they getting better/worse - and what is in your water now. (medication wise)

labroides better, more active and the wound appears smooth and no longer "hairy" as in the photo. Ctenochaetus hides as soon as he sees me and remains hidden, before he was less suspicious... but I entered the aquarium this morning with the net to catch the fox... maybe that's it... I don't know.

meds only cooppersafe at 2.4/ 2.5 measured with hanna

 

[MnFish1]

labroides better, more active and the wound appears smooth and no longer "hairy" as in the photo. Ctenochaetus hides as soon as he sees me and remains hidden, before he was less suspicious... but I entered the aquarium this morning with the net to catch the fox... maybe that's it... I don't know.

meds only cooppersafe at 2.4/ 2.5 measured with hanna

I would say keep up what you're doing.

 

[Gildo]

@vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal got back from work today and bad surprise! also Ctenochaetus, who seemed the healthiest (but he had started breathing fast) died! labroides is lying on the bottom and breathing very fast!
since I’m on the 10th day of copper I exclude velvet or ich, and the ammonia level is ok.... can I somehow look at the fish and locate the cause??????
do I throw away all the water, disinfect everything with bleach and start over with the cycle of the new larger QT that will arrive on Tuesday?
probably the foxface that died first infected everyone....