Help with Quarantine Tank..

[Elliott ll]

I have a severe Ich breakout in my 90 gallon tank. I have 5 wrasses, 2 tangs, 2 clowns, flame angel, flame hawk, blue throat trigger. I am setting up (2) 50 gallon QT tanks with bio-wheel filters and with 6 fish in each tank.

I am wondering what can I do to help with keeping my fish alive from ammonia spikes? I have 2 dirty sock filters I have been letting build up, 2 bottles of Turbostart 900, and some dirty old matrix from my sump. Will adding these in the QT help at all?

 

[Miami Reef]

I have a severe Ich breakout in my 90 gallon tank. I have 5 wrasses, 2 tangs, 2 clowns, flame angel, flame hawk, blue throat trigger. I am setting up (2) 50 gallon QT tanks with bio-wheel filters and with 6 fish in each tank.

I am wondering what can I do to help with keeping my fish alive from ammonia spikes? I have 2 dirty sock filters I have been letting build up, 2 bottles of Turbostart 900, and some dirty old matrix from my sump. Will adding these in the QT help at all?

Yes. Add all of those things.

 

[Miami Reef]

Make sure you have a lid in the wrasse tank as they will attempt to jump.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have a severe Ich breakout in my 90 gallon tank. I have 5 wrasses, 2 tangs, 2 clowns, flame angel, flame hawk, blue throat trigger. I am setting up (2) 50 gallon QT tanks with bio-wheel filters and with 6 fish in each tank.

I am wondering what can I do to help with keeping my fish alive from ammonia spikes? I have 2 dirty sock filters I have been letting build up, 2 bottles of Turbostart 900, and some dirty old matrix from my sump. Will adding these in the QT help at all?

That should help, possibly will be enough that you won't see any ammonia (fingers crossed).

You say you have a "severe outbreak". Have you lost any fish yet? What is your treatment plan? Your choices would be hypo or copper. I'd opt for copper myself, but I've seen a rash of people here who have subscribed to the erroneous idea that copper needs to be "ramped up slowly". They then take this idea to the extreme (seven days in one recent case). However, all the time you spend below a full dose is just time that the parasite can continue taking its toll. You need to get you copper level up in less that 24 hours, using a good test kit (Hanna checker is the best).

Jay

 

[Elliott ll]

That should help, possibly will be enough that you won't see any ammonia (fingers crossed).

You say you have a "severe outbreak". Have you lost any fish yet? What is your treatment plan? Your choices would be hypo or copper. I'd opt for copper myself, but I've seen a rash of people here who have subscribed to the erroneous idea that copper needs to be "ramped up slowly". They then take this idea to the extreme (seven days in one recent case). However, all the time you spend below a full dose is just time that the parasite can continue taking its toll. You need to get you copper level up in less that 24 hours, using a good test kit (Hanna checker is the best).

Jay

I did lose a female blue throat triggerfish however it died within 48 hours of being home from the store and had no signs of ich. I think she died to something unrelated she had at the fish store. All other fish are alive and seem well, besides being covered in ich and looking pretty unhappy at times.

My plan was to start at Copper Power at 1.0ppm and ramp up slowly over 4 days to 2.0ppm with my tank of wrasses, and start at 1.0ppm and ramp up over 4 days to 2.25-2.5ppm with my other tank of non-sensitive fish. I have a Hanna checker to test. This was thought to be a good plan after reading Humblefish's guide on copper treatment.

Would you suggest I skip ramp up for the non-sensitive fish? Wrasses I still want to treat more carefully.

 

[Miami Reef]

I did lose a female blue throat triggerfish however it died within 48 hours of being home from the store and had no signs of ich. I think she died to something unrelated she had at the fish store. All other fish are alive and seem well, besides being covered in ich and looking pretty unhappy at times.

My plan was to start at Copper Power at 1.0ppm and ramp up slowly over 4 days to 2.0ppm with my tank of wrasses, and start at 1.0ppm and ramp up over 4 days to 2.25-2.5ppm with my other tank of non-sensitive fish. I have a Hanna checker to test. This was thought to be a good plan after reading Humblefish's guide on copper treatment.

Would you suggest I skip ramp up for the non-sensitive fish? Wrasses I still want to treat more carefully.

That method is old. Humblefish follows Jay’s recommendation of taking 24 hours to ramp to 0ppm to 2.5ppm copper power.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I did lose a female blue throat triggerfish however it died within 48 hours of being home from the store and had no signs of ich. I think she died to something unrelated she had at the fish store. All other fish are alive and seem well, besides being covered in ich and looking pretty unhappy at times.

My plan was to start at Copper Power at 1.0ppm and ramp up slowly over 4 days to 2.0ppm with my tank of wrasses, and start at 1.0ppm and ramp up over 4 days to 2.25-2.5ppm with my other tank of non-sensitive fish. I have a Hanna checker to test. This was thought to be a good plan after reading Humblefish's guide on copper treatment.

Would you suggest I skip ramp up for the non-sensitive fish? Wrasses I still want to treat more carefully.

I only worry about people making dosing errors while ramping up - as long as that doesn’t happen, dosing to full in 24 hours is important in cases where ich is getting the upper hand. Copper can take 3 days or so to work, so even getting them to a full dose isn’t a sure thing with severe infections.
Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

I only worry about people making dosing errors while ramping up - as long as that doesn’t happen, dosing to full in 24 hours is important in cases where ich is getting the upper hand. Copper can take 3 days or so to work, so even getting them to a full dose isn’t a sure thing with severe infections.
Jay

A formalin, freshwater or H202 dip prior to the copper can buy the fish some time if heavily infested.

However, fish can sometimes bleed to death with freshwater dipped with an absurd amount of flukes. In rare cases like those, the fish may be too far gone. It’s a case by case basis for sure, and that’s why we have Jay here.

 

[Elliott ll]

Okay so dose tank to 1.0ppm and then ramp up to 2.5ppm in 24 hours with Copper Power?

Also, I decided to say *** it and am renting a total of 4 tanks... (2) 50 gallon and (2) 40 gallon. I will have the 40 gallon tanks building a sterile biofilter for 14 days while the fish are split up between the 50s being treated with copper. After a dip, transfer to the new sterile tanks and then treat with prazipro, 2 rounds. Return to DT after 50 days. Figure 14 days will give my copper sensitive fish a better chance than 30 days. More leg work for me.

 

[Miami Reef]

Okay so dose tank to 1.0ppm and then ramp up to 2.5ppm in 24 hours with Copper Power?

Also, I decided to say *** it and am renting a total of 4 tanks... (2) 50 gallon and (2) 40 gallon. I will have the 40 gallon tanks building a sterile biofilter for 14 days while the fish are split up between the 50s being treated with copper. After a dip, transfer to the new sterile tanks and then treat with prazipro, 2 rounds. Return to DT after 50 days. Figure 14 days will give my copper sensitive fish a better chance than 30 days. More leg work for me.

I like this plan a lot. Make sure nothing from the original tanks are inside the new tanks. (Heaters, tools, etc).

Make sure the new tanks are at least 10 feet away from the copper tanks at all times.

If you want to use anything from the original tank, it must be 100% dry for 24 hours prior.

Nothing from Copper QT can go into the original display tank without soaking with cuprisorb media for 1-2 weeks as there will be copper bound to it which can harm corals/inverts if reached a high concentration.

 

[Elliott ll]

I like this plan a lot. Make sure nothing from the original tanks are inside the new tanks. (Heaters, tools, etc).

Make sure the new tanks are at least 10 feet away from the copper tanks at all times.

If you want to use anything from the original tank, it must be 100% dry for 24 hours prior.

Nothing from Copper QT can go into the original display tank without soaking with cuprisorb media for 1-2 weeks as there will be copper bound to it which can harm corals/inverts if reached a high concentration.

I got new equipment for each individual tank. Lucky enough to be able to rent all this equipment for reasonable price otherwise I would never even consider this...

I want to completely eliminate the possibility of cross contamination so I am have each tank in a different bedroom in the house, far more than 10 feet away. I will have new nets for each tank, and any time I transfer the fish will be dipped in new clean saltwater matching SG and temp of other tanks. Mainly doing all this because I want every fish I have to live and I don't want to have to do this again.

In the end I'll keep 1 of the 40 gallon tanks as my forever QT tank.

 

[Elliott ll]

I like this plan a lot. Make sure nothing from the original tanks are inside the new tanks. (Heaters, tools, etc).

Make sure the new tanks are at least 10 feet away from the copper tanks at all times.

If you want to use anything from the original tank, it must be 100% dry for 24 hours prior.

Nothing from Copper QT can go into the original display tank without soaking with cuprisorb media for 1-2 weeks as there will be copper bound to it which can harm corals/inverts if reached a high concentration.

So far everything is going great. Today is my first real day at therapeutic levels. I am running 2.25ppm on non-sensitive copper fish and 2.05ppm on copper sensitive fish. All fish are eating well and found their new sleeping spots. Few fish that didn't get along before are best friends now, so that's a plus.

After putting in the footwork though, I am starting to debate whether I want to do 14 days and am now leaning towards leaving them in their current QT for the full 30 day treatment. Especially after seeing my wrasses/tangs do so well in copper. For someone like myself doing a QT for their first time, 30 days just seems more... idiot proof?

 

[Miami Reef]

30 days is more fool proof IMO. Just be sure to observe for 2 weeks post treatment. I think it’s easier too as you don’t need double equipments with extra saltwater.

That being said, I personally mix medications (prazipro, metroplex, and copper) so bacterial blooms are much more likely in my scenario. Plus, I want my fish inside the DT as quick as possible, so I personally use the 14 day + transfer.

They both work, as long as you follow the steps for the method you choose.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Strong work on your efforts. I can tell you really care about your fish!
I have fish in QT and I’m doing 30 days plus 2 weeks observation.
Out of curiosity, where does one rent equipment as you are doing?

 

[Elliott ll]

Strong work on your efforts. I can tell you really care about your fish!
I have fish in QT and I’m doing 30 days plus 2 weeks observation.
Out of curiosity, where does one rent equipment as you are doing?

I luckily have a friend that sells aquarium tanks as a side gig. But, I run a business on Amazon and just thought of something... It's holiday returns period, meaning you have until Jan 31 to open a return for items. Little unethical, but if you really needed to rent something, you could always buy a tank, then return it after you're done.

 

[Elliott ll]

So Saturday night was interesting... Was cleaning some stuff in my sump and found a cleaner wrasse that I thought had died awhile back lol. So restarting the 50 day fishless period in my DT... I also just tossed him in a tub with 10 gal, aerator and 1.5ppm copper power... No issues. Today threw him in one of my two QT tanks at 2.25ppm copper power. Still no issues and eating like a pig. Did the same for a humu triggerfish I couldnt resist buying. What is the benefit of ramping the copper up over several days vs 24 hours?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So Saturday night was interesting... Was cleaning some stuff in my sump and found a cleaner wrasse that I thought had died awhile back lol. So restarting the 50 day fishless period in my DT... I also just tossed him in a tub with 10 gal, aerator and 1.5ppm copper power... No issues. Today threw him in one of my two QT tanks at 2.25ppm copper power. Still no issues and eating like a pig. Did the same for a humu triggerfish I couldnt resist buying. What is the benefit of ramping the copper up over several days vs 24 hours?

I see no benefit for ramping up copper slowly, only drawbacks. I routinely put fish right into full strength coppersafe. The drawback I see a lot of is when people over-extrapolate the "slow ramp up" idea - one person was taking ten days to get to a full dose. As you can well imagine, fish can die from active disease during this time. Then, people chalk it up to "copper toxicity" and next time, go even slower, or at an even lower dose.


This whole "ramp copper up slowly" stems from the old days when the only copper available was copper sulfate / citric acid solutions. Those could cause toxic reactions in certain sensitive fish such as Centropyge angels. In addition, that medication bound with components of seawater (calcium?) so you needed to dose, test, dose, test for quite some time to get things dialed in.

That said, I don't use Cupramine very often, so perhaps with that product, there is still some reason for a slow ramp up? Even then, 48 hours max....

Jay

 

[Elliott ll]

I see no benefit for ramping up copper slowly, only drawbacks. I routinely put fish right into full strength coppersafe. The drawback I see a lot of is when people over-extrapolate the "slow ramp up" idea - one person was taking ten days to get to a full dose. As you can well imagine, fish can die from active disease during this time. Then, people chalk it up to "copper toxicity" and next time, go even slower, or at an even lower dose.


This whole "ramp copper up slowly" stems from the old days when the only copper available was copper sulfate / citric acid solutions. Those could cause toxic reactions in certain sensitive fish such as Centropyge angels. In addition, that medication bound with components of seawater (calcium?) so you needed to dose, test, dose, test for quite some time to get things dialed in.

That said, I don't use Cupramine very often, so perhaps with that product, there is still some reason for a slow ramp up? Even then, 48 hours max....

Jay

Okay that is great to know for future additions and that confirms my assumption from the experience I am having. Currently I am doing my best to avoid Cupramine and sticking with Copper Power. Thanks for your response as always @Jay Hemdal !

 

[SlugSnorter]

That reef safe stuff kick ich might be good for display. It doesn't treat the fish and it is nowhere near as effective as copper but It can help make sure theres a lessened chance of Ich returning after the fishless period

 

[Elliott ll]

I see no benefit for ramping up copper slowly, only drawbacks. I routinely put fish right into full strength coppersafe. The drawback I see a lot of is when people over-extrapolate the "slow ramp up" idea - one person was taking ten days to get to a full dose. As you can well imagine, fish can die from active disease during this time. Then, people chalk it up to "copper toxicity" and next time, go even slower, or at an even lower dose.


This whole "ramp copper up slowly" stems from the old days when the only copper available was copper sulfate / citric acid solutions. Those could cause toxic reactions in certain sensitive fish such as Centropyge angels. In addition, that medication bound with components of seawater (calcium?) so you needed to dose, test, dose, test for quite some time to get things dialed in.

That said, I don't use Cupramine very often, so perhaps with that product, there is still some reason for a slow ramp up? Even then, 48 hours max....

Jay

@Jay Hemdal what I didn't really put enough thought into... was removing all my fish from DT has caused a bit of a nitrate and nitrite spike. Uh oh..