Help with SPS in my tank

[arking_mark]

Interesting. I have a Seneye and compared it to my local reef club's Apogee. The results were almost exact. I did a map of my entire tank using both units, and the readings were within 10 or so PAR of each other. I wonder if it depends on the combinations of LED's that are being used?

My lights are 4 XR15 Gen 5 Pros running the AB+ schedule. Perhaps if someone is running more/less blue, that may affect the readings on Seneye vs Apogee?

BRS did a nice comparison of several PAR meters and also found Seneyer to be very accurate. Hence why I think my PAR reading is in a good range.

 

[arking_mark]

Interestingly enough my Nitrates have dropped to 1ppm and PO4 is still at 0.02ppm.

 

[arking_mark]

Interestingly enough my Nitrates have dropped to 1ppm and PO4 is still at 0.02ppm.

So I'm kinda thinking the tank may be PO4 limited. I was sort of expecting NO3 to rise as PO4 came up.

More feeding...

 

[leepink23]

Interesting. I have a Seneye and compared it to my local reef club's Apogee. The results were almost exact. I did a map of my entire tank using both units, and the readings were within 10 or so PAR of each other. I wonder if it depends on the combinations of LED's that are being used?

My lights are 4 XR15 Gen 5 Pros running the AB+ schedule. Perhaps if someone is running more/less blue, that may affect the readings on Seneye vs Apogee?

That’s a good question. I have an apogee 510, compared to 3 different seneye. Then thinking maybe my apogee was off I borrowed another apogee 510 and it read the same as my apogee. Submitted videos of side by side comparison and ultimately the people with seneye were refunded

 

[leepink23]

So I'm kinda thinking the tank may be PO4 limited. I was sort of expecting NO3 to rise as PO4 came up.

More feeding...

Good idea. I try to get 0.1 on phosphate, 10-15 nitrates

 

[arking_mark]

That’s a good question. I have an apogee 510, compared to 3 different seneye. Then thinking maybe my apogee was off I borrowed another apogee 510 and it read the same as my apogee. Submitted videos of side by side comparison and ultimately the people with seneye were refunded

I was able to get a Apogee 520 from a local reefer. Readings are much different than the Seneye.

Where Seneye reads 250+, the SQ 520 is reading about 100 PAR less. The SQ 520 is about 3 years old, but should still be more accurate than a Seneye.

Anyone else using the Kessil A360x with narrow reflectors and can share their intensity and PAR readings?

 

[leepink23]

I was able to get a Apogee 520 from a local reefer. Readings are much different than the Seneye.

Where Seneye reads 250+, the SQ 520 is reading about 100 PAR less. The SQ 520 is about 3 years old, but should still be more accurate than a Seneye.

Anyone else using the Kessil A360x with narrow reflectors and can share their intensity and PAR readings?

I figured this would be the case, glad you were able to cross check

 

[arking_mark]

I figured this would be the case, glad you were able to cross check

Yeah. I should have guessed that something was off with 250+ PAR at 30% intensity. Stupid Seneye!

 

[arking_mark]

@Dana Riddle Any insight?

I was able to get a Apogee 520 from a local reefer. Readings are much different than the Seneye.

Where Seneye reads 250+, the SQ 520 is reading about 100 PAR less. The SQ 520 is about 3 years old, but should still be more accurate than a Seneye.

Anyone else using the Kessil A360x with narrow reflectors and can share their intensity and PAR readings?

 

[arking_mark]

So now that we think my PAR is below desired for optimal SPS lighting needs, I still don't think my SPS issues are explained by this. While 150+ PAR isn't great, it's still good enough to sustain most SPS and should have been great for my latest frag pack as the normal procedure is to slowly acclimate them up to your lighting.

So just to review my issues and steps taken to remediate...

Issues:
1. Current SPS in my tank aren't thriving (softies and LPS are doing fine)
2. I have virtually no PE from any of my SPS but they do show some growth
3. Latest frag pack that came in looking amazing but lost about 30-50% of their flesh in 24hrs and show no PE

Steps taken:
1. Looked at flow (estimated @ 5275gph or 50 x estimated total water system volume of 108gal). I have 2 ReefWave 45 producing ~2400gph, L2 return pump ~275gph, Octopulse 2 ~1600gph, Wavebox ~1000gph.
2. Took suggestion to increase NO3/PO4 through increased feedings. Too soon to tell if this is helping the SPS, but LPS and softies are taking off (literally growing overnight). Seems like the tank was PO4 limited as increased feeding has increased PO4 slightly, but reduced NO3. Increasing feedings further...
3. Looked at lighting. Crosschecked my Seneye and suspect that my PAR was 100 less than what my Seneye was showing so 250-300 PAR was probably more like 150-200 PAR. I have set my Kessil lights to double the intensity with a 30 day acclimation period starting at 50%. So light will go from the current 30% intensity to 60% which gets us to the 250+ PAR range.
4. Added rock to my sump from a much older tank from a fellow reefer to increase biodiversity.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Dana Riddle Any insight?

Is the Seneye being held by hand? It is possible light reflected from your hand/arm could cause higher readings, but if both sensors are handheld, it's a moot point. The Apogee meter should be OK - I took thousands of measurements in sun and metal halide light and it was years before any fogging of the lens was apparent. I'm maintaining Acroporas in light fields of ~175 to 300 PPFD. There is ramping of the lights, so a DLI tells a better story 7 and 11, respectivel;y.

 

[arking_mark]

Is the Seneye being held by hand? It is possible light reflected from your hand/arm could cause higher readings, but if both sensors are handheld, it's a moot point. The Apogee meter should be OK - I took thousands of measurements in sun and metal halide light and it was years before any fogging of the lens was apparent. I'm maintaining Acroporas in light fields of ~175 to 300 PPFD. There is ramping of the lights, so a DLI tells a better story 7 and 11, respectivel;y.

Both the Seneye and SQ-520 were on wands.

Any idea on PAR readings for an A360x with narrow 55' reflectors 8" off the water for a 22" deep tank?

 

[leepink23]

So now that we think my PAR is below desired for optimal SPS lighting needs, I still don't think my SPS issues are explained by this. While 150+ PAR isn't great, it's still good enough to sustain most SPS and should have been great for my latest frag pack as the normal procedure is to slowly acclimate them up to your lighting.

So just to review my issues and steps taken to remediate...

Issues:
1. Current SPS in my tank aren't thriving (softies and LPS are doing fine)
2. I have virtually no PE from any of my SPS but they do show some growth
3. Latest frag pack that came in looking amazing but lost about 30-50% of their flesh in 24hrs and show no PE

Steps taken:
1. Looked at flow (estimated @ 5275gph or 50 x estimated total water system volume of 108gal). I have 2 ReefWave 45 producing ~2400gph, L2 return pump ~275gph, Octopulse 2 ~1600gph, Wavebox ~1000gph.
2. Took suggestion to increase NO3/PO4 through increased feedings. Too soon to tell if this is helping the SPS, but LPS and softies are taking off (literally growing overnight). Seems like the tank was PO4 limited as increased feeding has increased PO4 slightly, but reduced NO3. Increasing feedings further...
3. Looked at lighting. Crosschecked my Seneye and suspect that my PAR was 100 less than what my Seneye was showing so 250-300 PAR was probably more like 150-200 PAR. I have set my Kessil lights to double the intensity with a 30 day acclimation period starting at 50%. So light will go from the current 30% intensity to 60% which gets us to the 250+ PAR range.
4. Added rock to my sump from a much older tank from a fellow reefer to increase biodiversity.

Any other thoughts?

Out of curiosity, what is your acclimation procedure? Do you dip the acros? Just curious in relation to the frag pack. The other acros don’t have pe but are growing?

 

[arking_mark]

Out of curiosity, what is your acclimation procedure? Do you dip the acros? Just curious in relation to the frag pack. The other acros don’t have pe but are growing?

Acclimation is a dip in Beyer Complete. Then light acclimation...that's pretty much it.

Yes the other acros do not have PE but are growing.

 

[leepink23]

Acclimation is a dip in Beyer Complete. Then light acclimation...that's pretty much it.

Yes the other acros do not have PE but are growing.

I got a drip acclimation for my acros, I check the salinity in the bag and compare it to my qt. Match salinity slowly then move into qt for observation. I usually dip after a week. I had several acros that lost tissue when dipping the same day. May not be the cause just my past experiences.
If they are growing that’s a good thing. Hopefully with extra par over time you will get better color and pe
What’s your salinity and how do you check it?

 

[arking_mark]

I got a drip acclimation for my acros, I check the salinity in the bag and compare it to my qt. Match salinity slowly then move into qt for observation. I usually dip after a week. I had several acros that lost tissue when dipping the same day. May not be the cause just my past experiences.
If they are growing that’s a good thing. Hopefully with extra par over time you will get better color and pe
What’s your salinity and how do you check it?

Salinity is maintained through my GHL at 1.0264. I've automated adjustment...so almost always spot on.

 

[DaveWrasse]

I have 4 Kessils A360X over my Red Sea 650XL with SPS acro's like Walt Disney, Prom Queen, pikachu, Oregon Tort, Strawberry Shortcake and wild acro's.

I quickly ramp up the intensity to 85% and run that from 8:00 am. to 12:00 pm. Then I drop it down to 75% for the rest of the day till 8:00 and ramp down to 0% by 9 pm. I run 100% violet and 20% CLR. I have had excellent growth results. Lights are 9 inches off the water.

Walt Disney's will take a few months before it takes off.
Most Acro's will encrust first before you see tip growth.

I dose AB+ once or twice a week.
Reef roids/Reef Chili twice a week.
Mostly feed frozen or flake to fish.
I daily dose Brightwell amino acids.
Weekly dose 5 ml. of Brightwell Koral Color, Borochrome and Strontium.
Daily dose of phyto (about a teaspoon).

I always dip the same day corals arrive with Coral RX.
No temp or salinity acclimation.
Next dip is in Coral MD (Lugols)
Next dip in clean tank water
Corals are all placed on small rack at bottom of tank. Acros stay for two weeks on bottom before moving up.

 

[arking_mark]

I have 4 Kessils A360X over my Red Sea 650XL with SPS acro's like Walt Disney, Prom Queen, pikachu, Oregon Tort, Strawberry Shortcake and wild acro's.

I quickly ramp up the intensity to 85% and run that from 8:00 am. to 12:00 pm. Then I drop it down to 75% for the rest of the day till 8:00 and ramp down to 0% by 9 pm. I run 100% violet and 20% CLR. I have had excellent growth results. Lights are 9 inches off the water.

Walt Disney's will take a few months before it takes off.
Most Acro's will encrust first before you see tip growth.

I dose AB+ once or twice a week.
Reef roids/Reef Chili twice a week.
Mostly feed frozen or flake to fish.
I daily dose Brightwell amino acids.
Weekly dose 5 ml. of Brightwell Koral Color, Borochrome and Strontium.
Daily dose of phyto (about a teaspoon).

I always dip the same day corals arrive with Coral RX.
No temp or salinity acclimation.
Next dip is in Coral MD (Lugols)
Next dip in clean tank water
Corals are all placed on small rack at bottom of tank. Acros stay for two weeks on bottom before moving up.

Just the information I was looking for! Thank you so much!

Do you by chance know your general PAR measurements at different depths?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Both the Seneye and SQ-520 were on wands.

Any idea on PAR readings for an A360x with narrow 55' reflectors 8" off the water for a 22" deep tank?

Research by others states many Acropora species contain a type/types of Symbiodinium that are highly adaptable to light intensity. This, of course, suggests that they are tolerant of very low light. However, self-shading (zoox on the bottom of branches or at the base) could be an issue. I would suggest a minimum PPFD of around 150. If their color is induced by light, the sky is the limit. We grew (very slowly) a beautiful A. austera at PPFD of around 800. It was a beautiful mauve color (a non-fluorescent chromoprotein) from top to bottom.

 

[arking_mark]

Research by others states many Acropora species contain a type/types of Symbiodinium that are highly adaptable to light intensity. This, of course, suggests that they are tolerant of very low light. However, self-shading (zoox on the bottom of branches or at the base) could be an issue. I would suggest a minimum PPFD of around 150. If their color is induced by light, the sky is the limit. We grew (very slowly) a beautiful A. austera at PPFD of around 800. It was a beautiful mauve color (a non-fluorescent chromoprotein) from top to bottom.

The 150+ minimum suggestion is what my SPS were receiving. Could the lower lighting explain lack of PE in your opinion?