Help with the magic of ESV

[mike550]

Hello! I recently changed salts from TM Pro to Instant Ocean (regular) as part of a tank reboot. Starting to put corals back into the tank and while my Alk is running around 8.5 my Calcium seems low-ish around 400. While I dose Alk, I don’t dose Ca.

Thinking of dosing ESV B-Ionic and I understand that the directions say to dose equal amounts. Three

1. Do I dose based upon Alk consumption?
2. Before dosing equal amounts should I get my Alk and Ca to my target values (8.5 / 450) or does ESV balance this out over time?
3. What kind of sorcery is this that let’s me dose equal amounts of each?

Thanks in advance!

 

[exnisstech]

Hello! I recently changed salts from TM Pro to Instant Ocean (regular) as part of a tank reboot. Starting to put corals back into the tank and while my Alk is running around 8.5 my Calcium seems low-ish around 400. While I dose Alk, I don’t dose Ca.

Thinking of dosing ESV B-Ionic and I understand that the directions say to dose equal amounts. Three

1. Do I dose based upon Alk consumption?
2. Before dosing equal amounts should I get my Alk and Ca to my target values (8.5 / 450) or does ESV balance this out over time?
3. What kind of sorcery is this that let’s me dose equal amounts of each?

Thanks in advance!

Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert
I use ESV 2part. My understanding is alk and calcium are consumed at the same rate. That was true for a few years but for some reason my calcium crept upwards of 500 so I have been dosing alk only for a couple of months.
1. Yes
2. I would use the 2 part to raise them both.
3. See my statement above.

Since you would like your calcium a little higher I would determine your alk consumption and dose based on that. I would also start off using both parts and keep an eye on things. I used both parts for several years. I'm not really sure why my calcium crept up unless it's my salt. I use a 50/50 mix of IO and reef crystals.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I use AFR and if I notice either calcium or dkh is low I'll use either part 1 or part 2 of ESV to bring up whichever level that the tank needs. After that I'll just adjust the amount of AFR.

 

[mike550]

Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert
I use ESV 2part. My understanding is alk and calcium are consumed at the same rate. That was true for a few years but for some reason my calcium crept upwards of 500 so I have been dosing alk only for a couple of months.
1. Yes
2. I would use the 2 part to raise them both.
3. See my statement above.

Since you would like your calcium a little higher I would determine your alk consumption and dose based on that. I would also start off using both parts and keep an eye on things. I used both parts for several years. I'm not really sure why my calcium crept up unless it's my salt. I use a 50/50 mix of IO and reef crystals.

Thank You!

 

[mike550]

I use AFR and if I notice either calcium or dkh is low I'll use either part 1 or part 2 of ESV to bring up whichever level that the tank needs. After that I'll just adjust the amount of AFR.

Oh that’s interesting. Hadn’t really thought about AFR. I can see the allure of a single product. Why did you choose AFR over ESV 2 part?

 

[mike550]

@exnisstech and @fullinfusion let’s say my new saltwater mix is “off” on either alk or ca. Would I use either ESV or AFR to bring it to my target parameters or should I adjust Alk and Ca separately?

 

[exnisstech]

I'll admit I haven't tested my fresh mix in years.

 

[mike550]

I'll admit I haven't tested my fresh mix in years.

Wow. You’re my hero. Hahaha

 

[exnisstech]

Wow. You’re my hero. Hahaha

Just lazy that and I haven't changed salt mix in a long time. Plus I do frequent small changes vs 10% or 20% so if it's off I don't change enough that it would really effect things.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

They say it's a two-part dosing additive. Your system is going to use more alkalinity than calcium.

If you want say 450 calcium and your test kit is reading lower than add part 2 to raise your calcium. Same goes for alkalinity. You don't need to dose equal parts because like I said above your alkalinity is consumed faster than the calcium so when you dose equal parts of both you're going to push one down versus the other.

I hope that made sense.

 

[mike550]

They say it's a two-part dosing additive. Your system is going to use more alkalinity than calcium.

If you want say 450 calcium and your test kit is reading lower than add part 2 to raise your calcium. Same goes for alkalinity. You don't need to dose equal parts because like I said above your alkalinity is consumed faster than the calcium so when you dose equal parts of both you're going to push one down versus the other.

I hope that made sense.

It did. Tbh I’m leaning towards trying AFR running the Alk to 8.5 and seeing where Ca ends up. Of course the real proof will be in how the tank is doing.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

It did. Tbh I’m leaning towards trying AFR running the Alk to 8.5 and seeing where Ca ends up. Of course the real proof will be in how the tank is doing.

Actually AFR works very well in the past month that I've been using it. The coral have definitely been reacting positively to the new additive. The calcium you'll probably find will be higher and your alkalinity will vary depending on how many corals you have in the tank.

I just stopped testing calcium and basically just will test the dkh and if it's a little low I'll just use the ESV part 1 to bump It up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

1. Do I dose based upon Alk consumption?
2. Before dosing equal amounts should I get my Alk and Ca to my target values (8.5 / 450) or does ESV balance this out over time?
3. What kind of sorcery is this that let’s me dose equal amounts of each?

1. Yes. Then only adjust calcium doses after monitoring calcium for a long time (a couple of weeks).
2. Yes. Use one part or the other. Likely do not need both).
3. Like most two parts, they are designed to have the ratio of calcium to alkalintiy that get consumed when calcium carbonate is deposited. There can be minor deviations from this ratio since a few other processes use or add alk (not calcium), but it is the best starting point.

 

[mike550]

1. Yes. Then only adjust calcium doses after monitoring calcium for a long time (a couple of weeks).
2. Yes. Use one part or the other. Likely do not need both).
3. Like most two parts, they are designed to have the ratio of calcium to alkalintiy that get consumed when calcium carbonate is deposited. There can be minor deviations from this ratio since a few other processes use or add alk (not calcium), but it is the best starting point.

Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley As a follow up do you have any thoughts on TM All for Reef?

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Out of all my research I have seen nothing negative about using AFR. Just heaps of positive results. In my experience of using the product it can push or elevates calcium higher. It really depends on how many corals you have in your tank though as I was led to believe it's bacteria from the coral that does the conversion to alkalinity.

 

[mike550]

Out of all my research I have seen nothing negative about using AFR. Just heaps of positive results. In my experience of using the product it can push or elevates calcium higher. It really depends on how many corals you have in your tank though as I was led to believe it's bacteria from the coral that does the conversion to alkalinity.

Thanks @fullinfusion My plan is to start adding corals over the next few months focusing on things other than SPS (Haha) I start to get my tank back into shape. So I’m trying to get an reliable environment set up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley As a follow up do you have any thoughts on TM All for Reef?

It can be a fine choice, especially for small tanks. Drawbacks are no pH boost and expense.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

It can be a fine choice, especially for small tanks. Drawbacks are no pH boost and expense.

That's where the ESV part 1 would come in handy if dosing AFR correct, skip a day and if the alkalinity permits you could dose part 1 for a pH bump?

Also what are your personal thoughts on oh let's say as an example seachem marine buffer for pH?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That's where the ESV part 1 would come in handy if dosing AFR correct, skip a day and if the alkalinity permits you could dose part 1 for a pH bump?

Also what are your personal thoughts on oh let's say as an example seachem marine buffer for pH?

Seachem marine buffer is a far worse choice for this purpose than is sodium carbonate or the alk part of the ESV two part.

Marine Buffer is a poor choice because:

1. It's pH boost is smaller per unit of alk added than a pure carbonate alk additive (which itself is smaller than a hydroxide additive)

2. It adds part of its alkalinity as borate despite the fact that only the bicarbonate/carbonate part is substantially depleting. Thus, borate can accumulate. Seachem used to also tout this as a huge plus, adding massive, unnatural amounts into their salt mix. They appear to have lost interest in that idea. lol

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Seachem marine buffer is a far worse choice for this purpose than is sodium carbonate or the alk part of the ESV two part.

Marine Buffer is a poor choice because:

1. It's pH boost is smaller per unit of alk added than a pure carbonate alk additive (which itself is smaller than a hydroxide additive)

2. It adds part of its alkalinity as borate despite the fact that only the bicarbonate/carbonate part is substantially depleting. Thus, borate can accumulate. Seachem used to also tout this as a huge plus, adding massive, unnatural amounts into their salt mix. They appear to have lost interest in that idea. lol

Thanks for clearing that up for me. My pH was 7.78 the other day and I wanted to bump up the pH a little bit since the tank isn't very old. The directions said to use one teaspoon per X and I thought I was holding a half teaspoon where it turned out it was half a tablespoon and I majorly overshot the amount to use. pH spiked to 8.51. I didn't want to use any AFR as the alkalinity was already at 9.9 dkh. I figured I will just leave the system alone and the pH started to come down but the dkh tested today is 11.8 lol..

I knew I stopped using that stuff months ago for a reason and now it's living in the trash can.