Herbie overflow not working correct

[BC1906]

I set up a dual Herbie overflow on my 180g about 10 months ago. Everything was working fine but the last few months The water does not stay level in the overflows which causes the water in the sump to rise and fall seeing of the ato all the time.

I did make the mistake of using true union ball valves on the drains instead of gate valves. I originally set the tank up outside to test and couldn't fit a separate union and gate valve on one of the drains.

When set the drain on the left to where it needs to be it will slowly start to raise up and start draining down the emergency drain over a course of a day or two. The drain on the right is fully opened and still won't bring the water level down in that overflow

Could the ball valves be causing the problem?

 

[TheEngineer]

I wonder if you could use the bean animal method of tuning the drains. Essentially you have a distributed bean animal, right? Two siphon lines and one (maybe two) emergency lines?

If I recall correctly, the main siphon runs at full speed, but isn't enough to handle the full turnover rate. The second siphon is tuned to handle the remaining flow.

 

[wattson]

one gate valve only on one overflow,,no valve on the secondary,,I have three tanks with the herbie and have NO issues,,it works very well as designed. ball valves may be the issue,,I use gate vavles on all 3 of mine

 

[TheEngineer]

one gate valve only on one overflow,,no valve on the secondary,,I have three tanks with the herbie and have NO issues,,it works very well as designed. ball valves may be the issue,,I use gate vavles on all 3 of mine

The OP has two overflows and two sets of drains.

 

[K. Steven]

I agree, this looks more like a Bean Animal. If the primary drain is slowly filling over a day, then your return/drain flow rate is slightly elevated (i.e., returning more water than draining). I would make the smallest adjustments possible to open the primary drain ball valve until you reach an equilibrium.

 

[BC1906]

one gate valve only on one overflow,,no valve on the secondary,,I have three tanks with the herbie and have NO issues,,it works very well as designed. ball valves may be the issue,,I use gate vavles on all 3 of mine

If you don't put a valve on the second overflow then how do you control the level on that side?

 

[BC1906]

I agree, this looks more like a Bean Animal. If the primary drain is slowly filling over a day, then your return/drain flow rate is slightly elevated (i.e., returning more water than draining). I would make the smallest adjustments possible to open the primary drain ball valve until you reach an equilibrium.

Doesn't the bean animal have a different set up in the overflow box? This is what mine looks like (don't have an actual pic right now) but it has a 3/4" main drain with a strainer and a 1" emergency drain.

 

[TheEngineer]

If you don't put a valve on the second overflow then how do you control the level on that side?

I don't think you need to worry about controlling the level. It will naturally equilibrate between the two sides as the level in the tank rises/falls.

 

[TheEngineer]

Doesn't the bean animal have a different set up in the overflow box? This is what mine looks like (don't have an actual pic right now) but it has a 3/4" main drain with a strainer and a 1" emergency drain.

The beananimal is a safer version of the herbie. Same concept though.

 

[TheEngineer]

I don't think you need to worry about controlling the level. It will naturally equilibrate between the two sides as the level in the tank rises/falls.

I should have asked... what's the flow rate coming into the tank?

 

[BC1906]

I should have asked... what's the flow rate coming into the tank?

I don't have a monitor for my flow but I have a 2640gph return pump that I'm running at like 45% so probably around 1000gph after head loss

 

[Brew12]

I set up a dual Herbie overflow on my 180g about 10 months ago.

I'm surprised you got a dual Herbie to work that well that long. It is a challenge to get that set up correctly and keep everything in balance.

I did make the mistake of using true union ball valves on the drains instead of gate valves.

Since you used true union ball valves you should be able to get the same manufactures true union gate valve and change it out with no issues. They should be an exact fit.

What I would do in this case is to lower one of the emergency overflows by about 1/2 an inch. Turn this into a trickle drain. Dial back both the siphon drains until you just have a trickle of water going down this drain. You should be able to get this tuned and stable fairly easily. Basically, it is turning it into a split Bean Animal with 2 siphon drains.

 

[BC1906]

I'm surprised you got a dual Herbie to work that well that long. It is a challenge to get that set up correctly and keep everything in balance.


Since you used true union ball valves you should be able to get the same manufactures true union gate valve and change it out with no issues. They should be an exact fit.

What I would do in this case is to lower one of the emergency overflows by about 1/2 an inch. Turn this into a trickle drain. Dial back both the siphon drains until you just have a trickle of water going down this drain. You should be able to get this tuned and stable fairly easily. Basically, it is turning it into a split Bean Animal with 2 siphon drains.

I have looked everywhere when I was building this I could not find a "true union" gate valve. I've only seen gate valves and unions separate

 

[TheEngineer]

@Brew12 's suggestions are good ones.

A 3/4" siphon will pull about 1000gph at full speed when submerged. Yours empties into air, so it will be a little slower. You would need to mostly close the valve on the other side to take up that slack.

 

[Brew12]

I have looked everywhere when I was building this I could not find a "true union" gate valve. I've only seen gate valves and unions separate

Just did a quick search on Spears website and you may be right.

 

[BC1906]

Just did a quick search on Spears website and you may be right.

So would you say my main issue is that the drains just aren't dialed in or that the ball valves are causing the issues?

 

[Brew12]

So would you say my main issue is that the drains just aren't dialed in or that the ball valves are causing the issues?

The ball valves make it harder to get the drains dialed in. So both!

 

[BC1906]

The ball valves make it harder to get the drains dialed in. So both!

Lol true. Well since I don't plan on moving the tank again I'll probably just cut out the ball valve and try a gate valve.

 

[Brew12]

Lol true. Well since I don't plan on moving the tank again I'll probably just cut out the ball valve and try a gate valve.

I just remembered you are using a DC return pump, right? You can use the ball valve to "get you close" then use the pump speed to get it dialed in.

 

[K. Steven]

Doesn't the bean animal have a different set up in the overflow box? This is what mine looks like (don't have an actual pic right now) but it has a 3/4" main drain with a strainer and a 1" emergency drain.

I see three drains in your OP.