Hey Triton, what's going on with my macro algae?

[james.c]

Wow what a fascinating discussion!

Two weeks ago I decided to modify my setup and convert my 233 gal. bear bottom mixed reef tank with large remote 100 gal. DSB into a hybrid system using both Macro algae in sump and retain about 50% of my rock/sand in remote DSB. I've been dosing 160 proof vodka at .3 ml daily for years and had fair success keeping NO3/PO4 low. However, over that period a have fought a few battles with micro algae in the DT and have concluded that although DSB can eliminate nitrate via bacteria - bacteria is not as efficient as micro algae when micro is located under the lights in the DT. Once in the DT no amount of vodka or size of DSB is going to get rid of it. That is my experience.

To shake things up two weeks ago I purchased a Kessel H380 light and two small tennis ball sized pieces of Chaeto. I removed about 50% of my DSB and increased the flow through my sump to 1131 gph. I hung the H380 9 inches above the normal waterline of my sump and measured the PAR output of the light using my Apex. At the bottom of the sump I measured 841 PAR and at 1 inch below the surface it read 2000 PAR. To track growth I weighed the macro algae pieces for a combined total of 91 grams. At startup NO3 was undetectable using Lomotte No3-N test and PO4 was .06 ppm Hanna. I took a water sample for ICP but have not received results yet.

For the 1st week I used a 24/7 photo period and macro grew from 91 grams to 168 grams by day 10. Then it suddenly stopped growing completely. Both No3 and PO4 were about the same (I was measuring this daily.) In response to this, I cut the photo period in half and pruned the Cheato back to 90 grams and restarted. Today the Chaeto weighed in at 95 grams. There is now GHA in the fuge section of the sump along with the macro algae. When growing no GHA had yet appeared and thankfully there is none yet in the DT.

Conclusion: I've used up some element or compound the macro needed for growth. I'd like to point my finger at Nitrates being too low. However, reading this thread where some dosed additional nitrate to fix this type of scenario seems to have failed and/or fueled algae issues in the DT.

I'm uncertain at this point what I should do. Reduce/remove skimmer? Feed more? Dose Nitrate? GHA is the absolute worse outbreak I've ever faced in the hobby, if this gets into my DT I'll go crazy..

This is the first time I've opened my mouth on R2R hope I hope I'm doing this right and didn't offend anyone.

 

[ShadowR55]

Iron, dose Iron and iodine and your chaeto will grow like a weed.

 

[james.c]

I'll try dosing some iron... I tested my iodine earlier today (Red Sea) and it seemed to be close to NSW at .06 ppm. I did find the Red Sea kit to be a little tricky. Have no idea if Iron was used up by Chaeto that first week. No kit on-hand for Iron testing but I do have some Kent Marine Iron that I can dose. It would be great if dosing Iron turned this scenario around!

 

[Joe Batt]

I had a great deal of problems getting the cheato to grow. I am full Triton method, H380 light, good 10x flow..... I eventually started to add iron and iodine and the cheato took off. I had a bit of a spike of GHA in the huge for a while but now the cheato is out competing it and it is fading away.

Good lights, flow iron and iodine. Thats what worked for me

 

[james.c]

I had a great deal of problems getting the cheato to grow. I am full Triton method, H380 light, good 10x flow..... I eventually started to add iron and iodine and the cheato took off. I had a bit of a spike of GHA in the huge for a while but now the cheato is out competing it and it is fading away.

Good lights, flow iron and iodine. Thats what worked for me

Joe

During your battle with GHA did you attempt to remove it (like daily or weekly) or just let it grow out? What levels of iron and iodine are you maintaining? Higher than NSW? Also interested in knowing how long your battle with GHA has been going on.... trying to adjust my expectations.

 

[Merv49]

I have a problem similar to my macro (Chaeto), about 6 months ago I grew fast and strong, when that my No3 were 0.75ppm and Po4 was 0.04 according to Red Sea. I have more than 1 year of adding Nopox and macro growing Excellent as I mentioned.

After about 4 months towards today the chaeto is soft, grows little and disintegrates. My nutrients are higher than before and I continue to add Nopox.

I have been seriously analyzing eliminate all chaeto and not use shelter, since I add carbon and I also use GFO.

But it is a rare thing that the alga is damaged so much and what bothers me is that everything that disintegrates falls to the bottom and decomposes leaving a bad appearance in the sump.

I have been having the same type problem with my cheating over the year and a half that my 200 gallon talk has been up. No matter the bio load on the tank the cheating will just begin to decompose in the sump and along with that GHA actually grows in my sump and on the chaeto. My only solution in the past has been to dump all the cheating, clean all the algae from the sump and start all over. This seems to solve the problem but in maybe four months it happens again. I have no clue. Once when I did this all the new chaeto disentagrated right away as well and another batch had to be ordered. I have 30 fish in my tank so i’m Sure there are enough nutrients.

 

[ShadowR55]

I have been having the same type problem with my cheating over the year and a half that my 200 gallon talk has been up. No matter the bio load on the tank the cheating will just begin to decompose in the sump and along with that GHA actually grows in my sump and on the chaeto. My only solution in the past has been to dump all the cheating, clean all the algae from the sump and start all over. This seems to solve the problem but in maybe four months it happens again. I have no clue. Once when I did this all the new chaeto disentagrated right away as well and another batch had to be ordered. I have 30 fish in my tank so i’m Sure there are enough nutrients.

Did you try dosing iron and iodine? I bought red sea’s trace colors test kit and the trace colors additives which have iron, iodine and potassium, I dosed all 4 of them (ABCD) and my chaeto got a dark green and took off, I don’t even test anymore, I add a couple of drops of Lugol’s iodine every week because chaeto depletes it very rapidly and once I see my chaeto starting to pale in color, I add some iron.

 

[Merv49]

Did you try dosing iron and iodine? I bought red sea’s trace colors test kit and the trace colors additives which have iron, iodine and potassium, I dosed all 4 of them (ABCD) and my chaeto got a dark green and took off, I don’t even test anymore, I add a couple of drops of Lugol’s iodine every week because chaeto depletes it very rapidly and once I see my chaeto starting to pale in color, I add some iron.

Every Triton test i’ve done says my iodine is on the high side and my iron is at proper level. What gets to me is the GHA that grows right beside and on the chaeto. I’m using a H380 for light on a 11 hour cycle and there is not a trace of GHA in my display tank.

 

[james.c]

<sigh> I spent 90 minutes this morning cleaning GHA out of the fuge section of my sump. Had to drain half the water out and scrub ... you know the drill. I dosed iron for the first time last night along with some iodine. The macro algae weighted 95 grams day prior and now 97 grams. Looks dark and springy but has some GHA on it now. Not enough change to say anything conclusive except I didn't anticipate this level of hassle.

 

[Joe Batt]

Joe

During your battle with GHA did you attempt to remove it (like daily or weekly) or just let it grow out? What levels of iron and iodine are you maintaining? Higher than NSW? Also interested in knowing how long your battle with GHA has been going on.... trying to adjust my expectations.

I am away from home at the moment so I can’t give the levels but I will when I get home.
I slowly increased the iron dosage over 2 months between Triton tests until it started really greening up (as did the green corals) Triton is still showing zero, if it shows over zero you are using too much.

As for iodine it’s slightly higher than Triton recommendation and I am dropping it down.

GHA I removed once it looked a mess but didn’t go mad. No the cheato is out competing it.

 

[Merv49]

Every Triton test i’ve done says my iodine is on the high side and my iron is at proper level. What gets to me is the GHA that grows right beside and on the chaeto. I’m using a H380 for light on a 11 hour cycle and there is not a trace of GHA in my display tank.

I’m going to try more iron and see if that solves the problem. What amount works best?

 

[ShadowR55]

Every Triton test i’ve done says my iodine is on the high side and my iron is at proper level. What gets to me is the GHA that grows right beside and on the chaeto. I’m using a H380 for light on a 11 hour cycle and there is not a trace of GHA in my display tank.

What salt are you using? I am using the H380 as well and I’ve had GHA get out of my ATS and take over my chaeto refugium as well, once I dosed the iodine and iron, my chaeto took off and I had no more GHA. I also ended up removing my ATS because the chaeto was doing so well. Try doing some weekly water changes. The problem that I found with Triton was that if you started it with a new tank, the tank never really gets to an equilibrium. I did bi weekly water changes for a couple of months and everything did much better and the chaeto was at least hanging in there instead of dying. Then I read a post about someone who makes their own iron supplement and has it on a doser for his chaeto. So I dosed Iron(even though my ICP tests showed everything was good other than iodine as it always told me I was low on iodine) and it took off.

 

[ShadowR55]

I’m going to try more iron and see if that solves the problem. What amount works best?

I don’t know the size of your tank, but I would try half of whatever is recommended on the bottle and go from there. If you can get the Red Sea trace colors kit and test for iron, I guarantee that it will most likely say you have no iron. That’s what mine said when I first started and I used up the whole small bottle of Iron over a few days. I ended up getting the 500ml bottles after that.

 

[james.c]

Triton system wants macro algae placed first in sump without socks or floss. Mine sits after the skimmer. I did stop using socks. Anyone had success with the order reversed? Believe it made a difference? I have about 300 actual gal of water in my system so doing a lot of water changes is something I'd like to avoid. My ICP test arrived in Germany today so should hear something from Triton soon. However, it appears from reading this thread that the ICP test has not been overly helpful dealing with the chaeto/GHA phenomenon. ATS? What is an ATS? I apologize my brain is shut down on this item.

 

[ShadowR55]

Triton system wants macro algae placed first in sump without socks or floss. Mine sits after the skimmer. I did stop using socks. Anyone had success with the order reversed? Believe it made a difference? I have about 300 actual gal of water in my system so doing a lot of water changes is something I'd like to avoid. My ICP test arrived in Germany today so should hear something from Triton soon. However, it appears from reading this thread that the ICP test has not been overly helpful dealing with the chaeto/GHA phenomenon. ATS? What is an ATS? I apologize my brain is shut down on this item.

My water currently runs to a 20 micron filter fleece roll into my sump before the chaeto. An ATS is an Algae Turf Scrubber which basically grows GHA. People use it when they don’t have space for a refugium.

 

[Joe Batt]

ATS are generally more powerful than Refugium’s but don’t house pods etc.

I would start with a very low iron dose. Keep that till next Triton and if cheato is not growing and you have zero iron then double the dose. If you ever get a reading on Triton or RedSea tests of iron you are overdosing. It is absorbed very rapidly in the system and if it shows in a test it’s too high.

 

[Joe Batt]

ICP is good to show iodine level if it’s too low that can be a problem for cheato growth. Also good to show if iron is being overdosed.

 

[Merv49]

I don’t know the size of your tank, but I would try half of whatever is recommended on the bottle and go from there. If you can get the Red Sea trace colors kit and test for iron, I guarantee that it will most likely say you have no iron. That’s what mine said when I first started and I used up the whole small bottle of Iron over a few days. I ended up getting the 500ml bottles after that.

What did you bring your iron level up to?

 

[ShadowR55]

What did you bring your iron level up to?

I could never get a detectable level in my tank. I would test and it would say 0, the kit recommends .15 ppm. I would dose over a couple days to raise to .15 and then rest again and it would be 0. But i noticed right away that my chaeto was dark green and more springy vs brittle. After that, I dosed some more and now I just dose about 30ml of red sea’s trace colors iron in my 175gal whenever I see the chaeto pale in color.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I think Triton rasies more problems than anything else. This is the ultimate chasing numbers. It involves you to constantly send in your water and buy supplements to get certain elements back up to levels.
Stick with two part dosing and small routine water changes.