High End?

[kidtango]

I have a fantastic idea!!
You know those green mushrooms with the blue spots on them that most LFS have a hard time selling because they're so common and grow so quickly?
If you photoshop them so they're sky blue and with hot pink spots, you can call them "super high end neon sky blast" and charge $1000 per pup. Now THAT'S the way to do it! Who wants to make some money with me?

You obviously have not seen a jawbreaker shroom, elactus or wwc og bounce and many more in person. Do me a favor and look at these mushrooms in person before you jump to conclusion. And if you had seen them and still not convinced that they are super bright and colorful, then stick with the brown corals.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

Some corals are naturally have some nice pigmentation, we just don't see it under certain lighting condition. Water chemistry and light spectrum manipulation (photo manipulation is not part of the equation) will make it "high end" or at least different

 

[kidtango]

Some corals are naturally have some nice pigmentation, we just don't see it under certain lighting condition. Water chemistry and light spectrum manipulation (photo manipulation is not part of the equation) will make it "high end" or at least different

True. Soft Corals are much more colorful under more blue lighting. These Corals exist much deeper in the ocean where the light spectrum is more blue. It makes no sense to keep mushrooms under 10k... my mushrooms are always under 20-24k. Too much light and flow willl kill them.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

True. Soft Corals are much more colorful under more blue lighting. These Corals exist much deeper in the ocean where the light spectrum is more blue. It makes no sense to keep mushrooms under 10k... my mushrooms are always under 20-24k. Too much light and flow willl kill them.

Nice!. In the end, it all boils down to what is in your tank. I personally bombarded my corals with a lot of warmer lights and surprisingly some sticks and favias have developed a more colorful pigmentation and looks much nicer over the time. There is no doubt some vendors will be showcasing a rare and colorful corals from time to time. In my state (north borneo island) quite a handful of new acros (mostly under suharsonoi sp) has been discovered and the coloration is amazing. With some luck, wild collector might come across a beautiful piece never being seen before.

 

[mcarroll]

then stick with the brown corals.

Another shot that I'm guessing is more true to what we'd see in person since we don't have fancy lenses or filters built into our heads:

 

[Peng]

Some corals are rare and colorful. But to me personally and probably also for a lot of other people, the name doesn't really do much. When considering whether it's worth to buy a particular coral, I often think about its shape/structure and its color. If it's got a very nice color then I might be willing to pay for a coral that goes beyond 200. Another thing that is soooooo important nowadays is the way the picture was taken. For example, vendors now all take top-down photos and it's extremely important for me to image how the coral will look nice once in my tank. Some vendors do provide a side pic which is wonderful. Because the thing is simple - I don't look at my aquarium top-down. So it doesn't matter how colorful the coral is, if its colors greatly reduces from the side angle then I won't buy it. Another thing is that, as many have mentioned, vendors love giving names and some corals out there have so many names. Pacman acro, or twilight dragon, JF kamikaze, or something else - all refer to one type and there's a huge difference between buying a twilight dragon (25) and a JF kamikaze (129). The coral is the same. The colors (mostly intensity) can be slightly different in their pics but how much of that intensity can I get when I take the corals home is another thing for me to consider. If the coral looks cool in someone else's tank, will I be able to produce the same color? What happens if the coral loses it's color? Will it be able to regain its original color? Some can, like tenuis. But other, including some deepwater species, change their colors quite a lot in different environments and may never be able to reproduce the same color and intensity in the vendor's photos.

There are so many things to consider, but knowing the species name of the corals recognize identifiable features for particular species does matter. No matter how high-end and hyped this coral is, the biggest reason someone should buy the coral should be because of its colors. And it helps to create a thread asking other people who have the same "named" coral to post their pictures so I can make sure that it's not hyped or not hyped as much. I'm a fan of deepwater acros and there are so many loripes/granulosa related names. I collect them, and these corals change their colors once in a new tank. What happens then often is that I'd get 3 frags that have different colors and then once in my tank they slowly change their colors to become more like each other or completely identical. Maybe this doesn't apply to other species but for granulosa and loripes it happens often. Depending on how colorful they are in these tanks, the price can be hugely different. So the best situation for a consumer would be that the coral has nice colors from side view & the frag is not very hard to keep (lokani, echinata, elegans can RTN quickly) & the colors usually can retain or can get back after a few months of settlement & the frag grows relatively fast. Many high end corals meet this criteria, for example WD, Homewrecker, Orange passion or envy and many others. They all are tenuis and can grow fairly fast and they keep their colors very well. Others are "nay" for me, for example, purple monster, fantasy island, and the list goes on. These corals either are a common type with a nice name tag or grows exceptionally slow, or their colors are simply unrealistic to keep. For many, it's many easier and cheaper to directly buy a maricultured colony than purchasing frags.

 

[kidtango]

Another shot that I'm guessing is more true to what we'd see in person since we don't have fancy lenses or filters built into our heads:

What's your point? Lol. Posting a pic of my tank. I just recently moved and restarted the tank. Most of the Corals are back in and still sitting on frag racks.


I'll make sure you give you an update on it since you're so interested in my setup.

Here's some more micro shots of the few sps.

 

[kidtango]

You have to white balance the lens when shooting under very blue lighting. My tank runs very blue on the right side where the lps is at and more white on sps. The sps side peak at 18k...

 

[kidtango]

The pics are exactly how I see the Corals in person.

 

[mcarroll]

Here's some more micro shots of the few sps.

The pics are exactly how I see the Corals in person.

Steve Austin is the only person I've ever met who naturally sees in filtered, specially lit micro/macro shots. Okay, the Predator sort of did this, but that was more like heat vision....totally not useful for coral viewing.

Ok, seriously...

I'm not saying macro pics aren't amazing...yours are, and the corals are awesome. I'm just saying that our naked eyes don't see that way. $1000 for the camera and lens + $1000 for the coral both seem to be required to get these views you're showing.

I also think florescence in corals is amazing, but that comes virtually without cost at all – just treat your corals right.

To associate amazing florescence exclusively to "high end" corals is understandable from a marketing perspective, but way, way silly in reality. As I have done with others in the past, I could pop your eyeballs out of their sockets with nothing but red and green Monti. cap. at my disposal, which are practically free corals that I don't think anyone would call "high end" unless they just really loved corals. A past quote from a viewer just standing in front of my tank: "I have these monti's in all my tanks. How do you get them to glow like that???"

 

[kidtango]

Steve Austin is the only person I've ever met who naturally sees in filtered, specially lit micro/macro shots. Okay, the Predator sort of did this, but that was more like heat vision....totally not useful for coral viewing.

Ok, seriously...

I'm not saying macro pics aren't amazing...yours are, and the corals are awesome. I'm just saying that our naked eyes don't see that way. $1000 for the camera and lens + $1000 for the coral both seem to be required to get these views you're showing.

I also think florescence in corals is amazing, but that comes virtually without cost at all – just treat your corals right.

To associate amazing florescence exclusively to "high end" corals is understandable from a marketing perspective, but way, way silly in reality. As I have done with others in the past, I could pop your eyeballs out of their sockets with nothing but red and green Monti. cap. at my disposal, which are practically free corals that I don't think anyone would call "high end" unless they just really loved corals. A past quote from a viewer just standing in front of my tank: "I have these monti's in all my tanks. How do you get them to glow like that???"

I understand how feel. I used to think this way until I had my tank setup like the way it is now with all these corals in the tank. They really do look like this especially when viewing with a topdown tube.

Some are even more colorful looking. And it wouldn't make any sense for me to spend thousands on Corals when I can achieve the same look with $20 corals. Not all sps are equal and same with mushrooms or other types of Corals. Take a jawbreaker as an example. People are willing to pay from $350-2,000 for one. Why? And these people bought these Corals in person and not over some pics on the internet.

How about rose anemone? Why would people pay 600-1k for a gonzo sunburst? I have this bta in my tank and I can attest that it's insanely colorful.

 

[Liquid360]

Because some people want something not easily had. Cheap coral is beautiful and plentiful and so some want something different, even if it's just a little so. There's this idea that somehow people with money just don't know better. I think this couldn't be further from the truth. If I had money I'd defiantly want some of the expensive coral. It's not about showing off or displaying wealth. I'm a hermit. Outside family nobody's ever seen my tank. Are there stupid wealthy people who want to show off? Certainly, but I don't think there are enough to support an industry.
This "my tanks pretty so why buy designer coral".... it doesn't account for human nature.

 

[tyler1503]

You obviously have not seen a jawbreaker shroom, elactus or wwc og bounce and many more in person. Do me a favor and look at these mushrooms in person before you jump to conclusion. And if you had seen them and still not convinced that they are super bright and colorful, then stick with the brown corals.

Wow, I think I struck a nerve there. My bad.

No I haven't seen them in person because some of those corals you have in America would probably cost 5 figures to get in Australia. That's IF they survive shipping and government quarantining before being sent to my door. I'd rather work for a day to pay for a coral than sell a kidney [emoji23] I can't even buy a tshirt for less than $40 from the states.
I'm not jumping to conclusions, I was half joking and half stating my opinion about a subjective topic.

At the end of the day a rhodactis is a rhodactis no matter what the colour. I don't understand how some people can justify a 5,000 percent increase on price just because one might have a nicer colour than another. Half inch corals going for $500-$1000 or more is just ridiculous in my eyes. You could have a list of stunning corals and beautiful fish for half that amount.

And all this fuss about "designer clowns" (which 20 years would have been killed because they wouldn't sell) or "limited edition" corals is rubbish in my eyes. How can a coral be a limited edition? How can ANYTHING which multiplies by itself be "limited edition"?
I see beautiful tanks which get no love because they don't have $2000 lights or corals that have fancy names attached to them. It's sad that some people put years of hard work into a tank to be overshadowed by "Super duper limited edition high end neon galaxy rainbow!!! $$$$$".

But I guess if people want to pay that much for a coral, that's up to them. I'm not judging and this is just my opinion.
I'm colour blind, so I may not have the clearest understanding on how some corals can be priced so much higher based on colour when (to me at least) some look incredibly dull and almost ugly.

 

[Liquid360]

Wow, I think I struck a nerve there. My bad.

No I haven't seen them in person because some of those corals you have in America would probably cost 5 figures to get in Australia. That's IF they survive shipping and government quarantining before being sent to my door. I'd rather work for a day to pay for a coral than sell a kidney [emoji23] I can't even buy a tshirt for less than $40 from the states.
I'm not jumping to conclusions, I was half joking and half stating my opinion about a subjective topic.

At the end of the day a rhodactis is a rhodactis no matter what the colour. I don't understand how some people can justify a 5,000 percent increase on price just because one might have a nicer colour than another. Half inch corals going for $500-$1000 or more is just ridiculous in my eyes. You could have a list of stunning corals and beautiful fish for half that amount.

And all this fuss about "designer clowns" (which 20 years would have been killed because they wouldn't sell) or "limited edition" corals is rubbish in my eyes. How can a coral be a limited edition? How can ANYTHING which multiplies by itself be "limited edition"?
I see beautiful tanks which get no love because they don't have $2000 lights or corals that have fancy names attached to them. It's sad that some people put years of hard work into a tank to be overshadowed by "Super duper limited edition high end neon galaxy rainbow!!! $$$$$".

But I guess if people want to pay that much for a coral, that's up to them. I'm not judging and this is just my opinion.
I'm colour blind, so I may not have the clearest understanding on how some corals can be priced so much higher based on colour when (to me at least) some look incredibly dull and almost ugly.

You're not judging? It sounds like you're judging... a lot like it actually. It's seriously beyond your ability to understand that for some, "expensive" is entirely relative and so paying high for prettier corals is easily within their reach and financial capabilities? That some people simply love the color combos or shapes seen only in higher end corals?
Take orange passion for example. You can't see why anyone would pay good money for it?

Or these?

What you're paying for is someone to sort through endless boxes of Radom coral, being able to find those pieces with the potential to be what buyers want, and then figure out how to grow them out fast enough and fully enough to be able to cut pieces off to sell to the public. To me this seems entirely reasonable, but not to you. Certainly there are FAR more people happy to obtain those corals which didn't get drafted into the world of high end and those are beautiful also!!!! But some people want first draft picks [emoji6]

 

[tyler1503]

You're not judging? It sounds like you're judging... a lot like it actually. It's seriously beyond your ability to understand that for some, "expensive" is entirely relative and so paying high for prettier corals is easily within their reach and financial capabilities? That some people simply love the color combos or shapes seen only in higher end corals?
Take orange passion for example. You can't see why anyone would pay good money for it?

Or these?

What you're paying for is someone to sort through endless boxes of Radom coral, being able to find those pieces with the potential to be what buyers want, and then figure out how to grow them out fast enough and fully enough to be able to cut pieces off to sell to the public. To me this seems entirely reasonable, but not to you. Certainly there are FAR more people happy to obtain those corals which didn't get drafted into the world of high end and those are beautiful also!!!! But some people want first draft picks [emoji6]

Mate, there's no point in arguing over a subjective topic. Especially over the internet. R2R is a place where everyone can share their reef related opinions openly.
We both have our opinions, let's leave it at that

 

[Liquid360]

Mate, there's no point in arguing over a subjective topic. Especially over the internet. R2R is a place where everyone can share their reef related opinions openly.
We both have our opinions, let's leave it at that

Works for me [emoji4] nobody's forcing you to respond [emoji6]

 

[kidtango]

Mate, there's no point in arguing over a subjective topic. Especially over the internet. R2R is a place where everyone can share their reef related opinions openly.
We both have our opinions, let's leave it at that

It's a healthy debate and I like that people respond and share their opinions. It's all subjective. The market works because of many individual subjective opinions.

One of the reasons why some "designer corals" are expensive is because it is rare to come by. Many big vendors like RR,WWC, UC, and etc have to go through 300 plus wild colonies before they find a few that are very colorful. Then they have to "cook" these corals in their tanks to see if they will hold color and hopefully get even more colorful.

If all wild colonies are as equally colorful in captive environment, then we won't be here debating over what's high end and low. The same goes with other corals like mushrooms. How many mushrooms are as colorful as a jawbreaker shroom? The challenge isn't just find the super colorful ones,but to also keep them thriving and reproducing in our tanks. A lot of the new elactus melt away... they are hard to find and expensive plus being super finicky doesn't help out with lower the price in the market. Demand is really high for these mushrooms.

So again, it's simple eco 101 - supply and demand. If suppliers can find a lot of colorful jawbreakers and able to import them to market for cheap, then the prices will go down.

Then we have the subjective opinions as part of the equation. Some of us will never pay more than $50 no matter what. Some of us will change our mind when we personal able to enjoy a "high end" tank (which is true in my case), and some of us will have no issue whatsoever spending 200-1k for corals on a routine bases.

That's why I encourage some of you guys to check out tank that's stocked with only the best corals in the market. See the potential and the rewards. Weight out your options and see if that will work for your wants and desires before jumping to conclusion.

And no nerves are struck here. Lol. It's foolish to take any of these personally. I love my tank and what I'm doing with it. Sharing is just a part of our hobby. I'm 100% sure we all have a lot more in common than differences.

So keep sharing. Call me out. I'm never ever going to be offended by what you guys say.

 

[badhabits]

I think it all comes down to personal choice and what you feel is the best choice for YOU.If someone wants to pay $800 for a frag let them

 

[mcarroll]

Many big vendors like RR,WWC, UC, and etc have to go through 300 plus wild colonies before they find a few that are very colorful. Then they have to "cook" these corals in their tanks to see if they will hold color and hopefully get even more colorful.

So they are applying elbow grease and determination to come up with $2000 pieces. I'm fairly certain everyone would do that if that's all that was going on.

IMO, again, there's nothing ordinary about how these corals come onto the market.

Are you familiar with the stock market?

 

[Liquid360]

Take a bunch of "standard" Coral in a tank at your LFS, a box full. I promise you'd be able to pick the "high end" "designer" Coral out of the rest.

A case of coral runs $900 plus and it takes BOXES before you find one, plus time to raise it, plus the other basic upkeep costs and obviously supply/demand economics. It's like a music agent picking the next hot band. We all think we could do it better, but it's not true. You have to invest to find these special corals. Go to his site... look at colors and prices.
https://battlecorals.com/

Show me a cheap version of this coral... this Adams from BattleCoral. He takes these using natural light, no photoshop.