High Phos little to none Nitrates

[Mattdavid121]

Hello everyone, need some help here. feeding about 2 times a day, running a UV, refugium and skimmer right now. have enough livestock in the tank, SPS corals are not liking what is going on. My phosphates currently at 0.09 when they're usually .3. My Nitrates are however 0.0 on both HR hanna and red sea test kit. My question is, how do I lower phosphates but raise nitraes a little? I did a big WC two days ago. wondering why my SPS are not liking what is going on in tank. Thanks, happy reefing

 

[blaxsun]

It sounds like your refugium and filtration may be a little too effective. You could leave any filter socks (if you run those) in for a day or two longer, turn the skimmer off every other day, etc.

 

[Mattdavid121]

It sounds like your refugium and filtration may be a little too effective. You could leave any filter socks (if you run those) in for a day or two longer, turn the skimmer off every other day, etc.

Yeah I shortened the length of the refuge. I also don’t run socks and the skimmer is currently on. I’m scared my 12 Alk with no Nitrates. is going to but my acro I fed a little more today, dumped some reef roids, but here’s my issue I’ll try and raise the nitrates, but won’t my phos go up as well?

 

[Mattdavid121]

Yeah I shortened the length of the refuge. I also don’t run socks and the skimmer is currently on. I’m scared my 12 Alk with no Nitrates. is going to but my acro I fed a little more today, dumped some reef roids, but here’s my issue I’ll try and raise the nitrates, but won’t my phos go up as well?

Meant to say Shock*

 

[BAMatter]

What are you feeding?

 

[mindme]

Hello everyone, need some help here. feeding about 2 times a day, running a UV, refugium and skimmer right now. have enough livestock in the tank, SPS corals are not liking what is going on. My phosphates currently at 0.09 when they're usually .3. My Nitrates are however 0.0 on both HR hanna and red sea test kit. My question is, how do I lower phosphates but raise nitraes a little? I did a big WC two days ago. wondering why my SPS are not liking what is going on in tank. Thanks, happy reefing

Dose nitrates. The things that need phosphate to grow(aka remove it) also need nitrate. If they run out of nitrate, they won't be able to take in the phosphates anymore. So if you simply dose nitrates you will likely see your nitrates rise, and your phosphates lowered as they get used up.

Typically you need a lot more nitrates than phosphates. I don't think I would lower the refugium lights or any of that. You still want things growing to remove the phosphates, you just need to add the nitrate so they can do that.

Of course another alternative is to just use some phosphate remover. If you get your phosphates down, then you won't need as much nitrates and then you could cut back on refugium time to get the desired levels rather than dosing nitrates.

 

[blaxsun]

Yeah I shortened the length of the refuge. I also don’t run socks and the skimmer is currently on. I’m scared my 12 Alk with no Nitrates. is going to but my acro I fed a little more today, dumped some reef roids, but here’s my issue I’ll try and raise the nitrates, but won’t my phos go up as well?

Possibly - but there are honestly so many factors all I can offer is best guess. I also know that certain types of food can increase phosphates more than nitrates. You could always look at dosing nitrates to get your level where you want it?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Dose nitrates. The things that need phosphate to grow(aka remove it) also need nitrate. If they run out of nitrate, they won't be able to take in the phosphates anymore. So if you simply dose nitrates you will likely see your nitrates rise, and your phosphates lowered as they get used up.

Typically you need a lot more nitrates than phosphates. I don't think I would lower the refugium lights or any of that. You still want things growing to remove the phosphates, you just need to add the nitrate so they can do that.

Of course another alternative is to just use some phosphate remover. If you get your phosphates down, then you won't need as much nitrates and then you could cut back on refugium time to get the desired levels rather than dosing nitrates.

This right here ^^^ is a great advice. I would just add that if you don’t raise your nitrates soon, you will start affecting your microbe population and risking dinoflagellates develop in the tank.

 

[Mattdavid121]

What are you feeding?

I feed morning and night. I use rodi water to clean mysis shrimp. Add selcon to the mysis.
will add nori to clip 3 times a week for my 3 tangs.
reef roids once every two weeks. Now I’m trying to add more for some nitrates.

 

[Mattdavid121]

What are some good ways to dose nitrates, I can also remove phosphates with GFO? I’m not trying to go the NOPOX route. Thanks peeps. This is also my current state from apex

 

[Mattdavid121]

What are some good ways to dose nitrates, I can also remove phosphates with GFO? I’m not trying to go the NOPOX route. Thanks peeps. This is also my current state from apex

 

[hhaase]

Truth be told, I'd worry more about raising the nitrates and not worry about the phosphates just yet. In my own tank, I had the same situation and was chasing the same problem. The tank also got a case of ugly real quick too, with brown crud all over the place which was likely diatoms.

You need to have both in the tank for a proper balance.

Once all the nitrates are exported and consumed, things stop growing, and then also stop consuming phosphates. Your SPS likely aren't responding poorly to excess phosphates, they're responding poorly to insufficient nitrates. Once you get your nitrate levels up your livestock will start consuming more nutrients and thus consuming more phosphates as well. This leaves a window for things like diatoms, which are primarily phosphate consumers, to thrive.

I struggled with this for a LONG time when I was running biopellets. They're just so good at reducing nitrates that I ended up with a huge nitrate deficiency and spiking phosphates. Once I took out the pellets and increased my nitrate levels the tank really started to take off. Phosphates dropped once other higher lifeforms began to thrive and the diatoms died off.

Do you have a turf scrubber or refugium with chaeto going? I always recommend people start a 'build thread' to chronicle their tank, as it lets us get a bigger picture of the whole system.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Truth be told, I'd worry more about raising the nitrates and not worry about the phosphates just yet. In my own tank, I had the same situation and was chasing the same problem. The tank also got a case of ugly real quick too, with brown crud all over the place which was likely diatoms.

You need to have both in the tank for a proper balance.

Once all the nitrates are exported and consumed, things stop growing, and then also stop consuming phosphates. Your SPS likely aren't responding poorly to excess phosphates, they're responding poorly to insufficient nitrates. Once you get your nitrate levels up your livestock will start consuming more nutrients and thus consuming more phosphates as well. This leaves a window for things like diatoms, which are primarily phosphate consumers, to thrive.

I struggled with this for a LONG time when I was running biopellets. They're just so good at reducing nitrates that I ended up with a huge nitrate deficiency and spiking phosphates. Once I took out the pellets and increased my nitrate levels the tank really started to take off. Phosphates dropped once other higher lifeforms began to thrive and the diatoms died off.

Do you have a turf scrubber or refugium with chaeto going? I always recommend people start a 'build thread' to chronicle their tank, as it lets us get a bigger picture of the whole system.

Wend the nutrients hit zero is most likely dinoflagellates, diatoms is mainly caused by high silica

 

[hhaase]

Wend the nutrients hit zero is most likely dinoflagellates, diatoms is mainly caused by high silica

Yep, you're correct. Flub on my part. Been reading a few "new tank" threads, so diatoms were on my mind.

 

[Mattdavid121]

Truth be told, I'd worry more about raising the nitrates and not worry about the phosphates just yet. In my own tank, I had the same situation and was chasing the same problem. The tank also got a case of ugly real quick too, with brown crud all over the place which was likely diatoms.

You need to have both in the tank for a proper balance.

Once all the nitrates are exported and consumed, things stop growing, and then also stop consuming phosphates. Your SPS likely aren't responding poorly to excess phosphates, they're responding poorly to insufficient nitrates. Once you get your nitrate levels up your livestock will start consuming more nutrients and thus consuming more phosphates as well. This leaves a window for things like diatoms, which are primarily phosphate consumers, to thrive.

I struggled with this for a LONG time when I was running biopellets. They're just so good at reducing nitrates that I ended up with a huge nitrate deficiency and spiking phosphates. Once I took out the pellets and increased my nitrate levels the tank really started to take off. Phosphates dropped once other higher lifeforms began to thrive and the diatoms died off.

Do you have a turf scrubber or refugium with chaeto going? I always recommend people start a 'build thread' to chronicle their tank, as it lets us get a bigger picture of the whole system.

I’m running a refugium. Chateo, mangrove.
Also a sub sterilizer. A protein skimmer.
Currently not running any socks. The chateo was growing like a weed now obviously stopped. I’m trying to feed a little more here. Any other ways to get nitrates in?

 

[sixty_reefer]

What are some good ways to dose nitrates, I can also remove phosphates with GFO? I’m not trying to go the NOPOX route. Thanks peeps. This is also my current state from apex

Potassium nitrate and neonitro are common methods

 

[Mattdavid121]

I’m running a refugium. Chateo, mangrove.
Also a sub sterilizer. A protein skimmer.
Currently not running any socks. The chateo was growing like a weed now obviously stopped. I’m trying to feed a little more here. Any other ways to get nitrates in?

Sorry for not spell checking UV Sterilizer

 

[mindme]

What are some good ways to dose nitrates, I can also remove phosphates with GFO? I’m not trying to go the NOPOX route. Thanks peeps. This is also my current state from apex

I've never had to dose nitrates in a reef tank, so I am not sure. I know there are some liquid products out there. When I dosed for my planted tanks, I bought powder fertilizers for each N,K,P and mixed them myself instead of paying for water.

You can use GFO if you want to add a pump/reactor. That's a longer term solution. Shorter term there is also some stuff called phosphate RX that works, just make sure you don't remove more than .05 phosphates per day.

 

[hhaase]

Yep, I was also going to suggest Potassium Nitrate as well.

Some people prefer a big dose, but I prefer doing smaller daily doses. You don't just need to get a slug of nitrate into the tank, you need to monitor and adjust as you go. Once you get nitrates into the tank things are going to start to wake up, and consumption will spike as your macro algae and other livestock start to come back. Once they are all nitrate saturated the consumption will reduce somewhat. So what you'll see if you dose too much is your nitrates won't go up for a while, even if you're dosing huge amounts, and then suddenly one day the number will skyrocket. Let the livestock tell you what they need. If things are improving slowly, but constantly improving, you're on the right track.

You may have too much nitrate export in the tank if you've got a huge pile of chaeto and mangroves. It's very easy to have an over-effective refugium. You can manage that by dialing back on the time/intensity of your refugium lights.

 

[Mattdavid121]

What happens when the Alk is high and nitrates are so low?