Hippo tang symptoms

[juicemanatx]

I have been fighting something similar which I thought was brook (diagnosed by local fish vet) but have had symptoms of a few infections.

I'm fairly certain the brook is gone, but I'm left with something else. Is it regular ich or something worse.

Looking at the Hippo

 

[melypr1985]

I see this post a lot. Are the ammonia reducing Sponges under the same restriction?

Also, is that just for Copper or is that for really any medication?

Like with regular antibiotics also?

Yes, the sponges are under the same restrictions. It's mainly copper that we are worried about, though there are some other meds like formalin that we would want to stay away from. We never recommend using Prime or other ammonia reducers with any meds simply because the reaction with them is varied between all the different medications out there. The "better safe than sorry" recommendation is a blanket statement not to use ammonia reducers with meds at all.

So the main way to combat ammonia is just water changes at this point? I have a seeded sponge filter in the tank as well as a spinning biowheel. Should I remove both to sterilize and go water changes from this point to combat ammonia?

Yes, water changes will be your friend. The sponge filter and biowheel are great and will be your main combatant against ammonia in the QT, but if you are going to really sterilize, then you'll want to sterilize them as well and start over. You can use a bacteria in a bottle product to re-seed the filters when you start over, though water changes will be needed frequently until they colonize to the point of being useful.

I have been fighting something similar which I thought was brook (diagnosed by local fish vet) but have had symptoms of a few infections.

I'm fairly certain the brook is gone, but I'm left with something else. Is it regular ich or something worse.

Looking at the Hippo

Your hippo looks to have an infection of some sort. Mine is currently battling the same condition. Antibiotics haven't had much effect on it at this point with mine, but it's early yet. I'm using furan2 and erythromycin on my hippo at the moment and have started copper again just in case. It's rather stubborn and irritating to be at the end of a very careful QT and have this issue.

 

[juicemanatx]

I would avoid the ammonia reducing sponges too. Usually you want to avoid them when using any medications, but some medications has been tested with them and they cause no harm. You can use antibiotics with ammonia reducers.
Also for velvet, CP can also be used to treat that.
For the photo, unfortunately it looks like velvet.
You need to start medicating fast, either CP or copper. I suggest copper because its hard to find CP and you don't have enough time to lose. You can do FW or acriflavine bath to provide relied for the fish. Also you need to treat the rest of the fish too, if one fish is infected, then all the fish are.

Well, if it's Velvet, they've had it for Months! I've had these fish since about December, pulled them out of the display since all new fish kept dying within a week, and have been trying different things since.

The fish in this particular QT are the original fish that I guess are all resistant to it, but anything else I added with them died. All eat great, and are active.

They look and act great after the Formalin Baths I did for the Brook, but this pops up after a few days.

 

[aykwm]

Then its for sure not velvet if its for months, if the fish developed immunity you will not see signs of velvet. You can try antibiotics to try to get rid of any infection that might be causing it or might develop from it.

 

[juicemanatx]

Then its for sure not velvet if its for months, if the fish developed immunity you will not see signs of velvet. You can try antibiotics to try to get rid of any infection that might be causing it or might develop from it.

The only reason why I have been thinking it was something worse than Ich is because of the fact of new fish dying so fast even though they were all qtd or Divers den. Most didn't make it in the display for more than a week, only leaving the original set of fish which is in this QT.

 

[melypr1985]

The only reason why I have been thinking it was something worse than Ich is because of the fact of new fish dying so fast even though they were all qtd or Divers den. Most didn't make it in the display for more than a week, only leaving the original set of fish which is in this QT.

Brook can kill just as quickly. That's not to say you didn't have velvet or anything else, but it's impossible to diagnose that issue without seeing the pictures or having more info. just from these pictures though, I'm going with a lingering bacterial infection. If you need further help, I'll gladly move your posts into your own thread so we don't derail this one too much.

 

[juicemanatx]

Brook can kill just as quickly. That's not to say you didn't have velvet or anything else, but it's impossible to diagnose that issue without seeing the pictures or having more info. just from these pictures though, I'm going with a lingering bacterial infection. If you need further help, I'll gladly move your posts into your own thread so we don't derail this one too much.

Please

 

[juicemanatx]

Some back story...

I QTd every fish that went into my display. I had a main set that I'd had for several months since I was waiting on my new tank to come in. They all looked great, eating well, etc. once the tank was setup I moved them in and began stocking up the rest of what I wanted, either QT'ing everyone or purchasing from Divers Den.

Almost all new fish would die within 7 days once added to the display. Some slimed up like Brook, some looked like Velvet, some showed no issues.

Someone suggested stress, so I added this idol and a puffer both in acclimation boxes so the fish couldn't stress them, they still died within that week span.

At that point I caught all of the fish out of he display to begin diagnosis and treatment as well as a Fallow period for the display.

I was referred to a local Vet who works with Marine Fish and he took a clipping of the gills of the Sailfin and said it was Brook.

So I tried Quick Cure (only over the counter Formalin) with no success. I then ordered Fomalin and tried that. Worked great, fish were immediately better and as far as I can tell the Brook is gone.

I'm left with something else now which is what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[melypr1985]

Awesome detail. Unfortunately even Divers den fish need to be QT'd. They only condition their fish before selling and they can and do bring in diseases and parasites if they are not QT'd.

Brook and velvet can sometimes look so similar that they are difficult to tell apart. I'm inclined to go with the vet's diagnosis as I'm in no place to countermand their diagnosis based on clippings and a degree. However, it does appear that you still have an issue and that doesn't mean that velvet wasn't apart of the issue in the beginning as well. The formalin likely helped keep the velvet under control the entire time and allowed the fish to develop a partial resistance to it (explaining why they are still alive right now).

If these were my fish, I'd start running copper and antibiotics. Coppersafe at 2ppm for 30 days (or 14 days with a transfer into a sterile tank for a two week observation period). Kanaplex + furan2 +metroplex gives you a wide spectrum of anitbiotics and should help out with that hippo tang.... though you can start off with just kanaplex if you want to start slowly and not expose the fish to so many meds at once.

 

[juicemanatx]

Being that I've been working with a Vet, I'm consulting him on if I could get access to Chloroquine Phosphate.

I have Cupramine already, I'm seeing a lot about Copper Safe being a better way to go?

 

[melypr1985]

Being that I've been working with a Vet, I'm consulting him on if I could get access to Chloroquine Phosphate.

I have Cupramine already, I'm seeing a lot about Copper Safe being a better way to go?

If you can get the vet to write you a prescription for CP then do that! Of course, you won't want to use it with the hippo tang since it's not safe to use on them.

 

[juicemanatx]

If you can get the vet to write you a prescription for CP then do that! Of course, you won't want to use it with the hippo tang since it's not safe to use on them.

Too strong for them?

 

[melypr1985]

Too strong for them?

It's not entirely known why they don't react well to it, but a large portion of hippo tangs that have been treated with CP die within a week or so of starting treatment. it's best to use copper with them. @Humblefish has lots of experience using CP with hippo tangs and other fish and can attest to it.

 

[Humblefish]

Too strong for them?

Just lots of anecdotal experiences of Hippo Tangs wasting away in CP for some unknown reason. Happens a lot to wrasses & anthias as well.

 

[juicemanatx]

Just lots of anecdotal experiences of Hippo Tangs wasting away in CP for some unknown reason. Happens a lot to wrasses & anthias as well.

Well, I don't have a separate QT to do the hippo separate from the others, just start Coppersafe today?

Do you think it looks like Velvet @Humblefish?

 

[Humblefish]

Do you think it looks like Velvet @Humblefish?

He does look "dusty" from certain angles, so I'm assuming velvet.

How did the vet reach the conclusion it was brook? Did he/she take a skin scrape and scope ID it? That would tell for sure.

 

[juicemanatx]

He does look "dusty" from certain angles, so I'm assuming velvet.

How did the vet reach the conclusion it was brook? Did he/she take a skin scrape and scope ID it? That would tell for sure.

The vet took a clipping of the gills of the Sailfin.

He told me Brook and one additional unknown parisite, but he doesn't have a sure diagnosis of the current situation.

 

[Humblefish]

The vet took a clipping of the gills of the Sailfin.

He told me Brook and one additional unknown parisite, but he doesn't have a sure diagnosis of the current situation.

I would combine copper with metronidazole to cover the "Big 4": Ich, velvet, brook & uronema.

A formalin or acriflavine bath might also be a good idea. But I would transfer them into a sterile QT afterwards to prevent reinfection.

 

[juicemanatx]

I would combine copper with metronidazole to cover the "Big 4": Ich, velvet, brook & uronema.

A formalin or acriflavine bath might also be a good idea. But I would transfer them into a sterile QT afterwards to prevent reinfection.

They have been through several Formalin Baths, with the most recent Baths being 3 consecutive Baths with one day in between each and each time in places in new sterile tanks.

I'm fairly certain the Brook is gone and I'm left with what appears to be Velvet or Ich.

 

[Humblefish]

I'm fairly certain the Brook is gone and I'm left with what appears to be Velvet or Ich.

Copper only for 30 days then.