How do you know which RO System filter to change?

[AZDesertRat]

The articles here should answer all your questions. Spectrapure has spent the last 31 years researching and developing reef quality RO/DI systems.
http://spectrapure.com/frequently-asked-questions

This one article pretty much sums it all up.
http://spectrapure.com/maximize-performance-minimize-cost

 

[120reefkeeper]

Ok, this is why im asking these questions. Im trying to learn this. The way you put do your homework at the end made it sound like i was trying up you. Im not because yeah i dont know a lot about them. Is there any site that tells us that the reef needs that good quality of filters? I know its better but is it absolutely a must?

To answer your very last question , I'll just say it.

Yes.

Think about this. Everything we do in this hobby is dependent on our water. Everything is based off that starting point. The tank, pumps, filters, fish, coral etc etc... Mean nothing without water. You need great quality water, and for the money there is none better than spectrapure systems. I myself have run what I thought were cheaper systems in the past.... Not when you constantly have problems with them or keep changing filters.

I've never been happier than with my spectrapure system. I'm not a part of the company in any way shape or form. I'm just a totally satisfied customer!

I've been in the hobby for 12+ years and wouldn't trust my system water to anyone else!

Hands down the best and to top that off, I don't have to keep changing filters constantly or spending money on resin.

They make some very affordable refurbished units that work great and for the money you can't get any better.

Spectrapure is a company that knows its water!!!!

 

[Russ265]

not sold on "it must be spectrapure or it's junk" bandwagon.

the ro unit you purchase from ebay just houses the filters. if you dislike the carbon, sediment, membrane, or even resin, then swap it to brand of choice.

me personally. you cant get lower than 0 tds. i dont care what brand it is.

i change my sediment and carbon filters every 2nd di change. reason being... i make over 150 gallons a month (with a booster pump to 110 psi). someone with a 40 gallon isnt going to chew through nearly the filtration.

my .02

 

[d2mini]

not sold on "it must be spectrapure or it's junk" bandwagon.

the ro unit you purchase from ebay just houses the filters. if you dislike the carbon, sediment, membrane, or even resin, then swap it to brand of choice.

me personally. you cant get lower than 0 tds. i dont care what brand it is.

i change my sediment and carbon filters every 2nd di change. reason being... i make over 150 gallons a month (with a booster pump to 110 psi). someone with a 40 gallon isnt going to chew through nearly the filtration.

my .02

Correct, all the RO/DI units use the same easy to get parts. You could DIY if you want.
All the filtration happens in the filters.
I own a unit from TheFilterGuys.biz. They have great customer service. But other than little add-on features, there is no difference between any of the available RO/DI units out there.
There are some fancy ones like from CoralVue that automate certain tasks like membrane flushes or tell you when to replace filters.

 

[AZDesertRat]

There are very big differences.
Starting with the housings and components, if they are not UPC rated and constructed using ANSI/NSF components, which many eBay quality systems are not, then pass on it. These codes and testing agencies are for your protection.
All filters are not created equal. Look for a low micron, absolute or near absolute rated sediment filter so it actually protects the billions of tiny microscopic pores in the carbon block from particulates and colloidal materials. You often find 5 or 10 micron nominal rated or even unrated sediment filters in lower end systems. FYI, did you know you can see 40 microns with the unaided human eye? 5 or 10 microns nominal is about as effective as a screen door!
Look for no larger than a 1 micron solid extruded carbon block and 0.5 or 0.6 microns is better still. Not only is this effective for removing the chlorine from 12,000 to 20,000 gallons of normally chlorinated water they are also more than capable of removing the chlorine portion of chloramines and breaking the bond with the ammonia which is removed by the RO and DI, not the carbon as some will try and tell you. You do not need special chloramine carbons.
Spectrapure specially treats ALL their RO membranes with a special proprietary process which is proven to increase their efficiency. Then they either batch test or individually hand test those membranes for quality control. Most vendors ship dry untreated and untested membranes. Did you know for every 2% you increase the performance you double your DI life? Huge cost savings over the life of the system. Yes 0 TDS is 0 TDS but how much did it cost to produce and how long does it maintain that 0 TDS ? RO/DI systems are not all created equal.
Spectrapure custom blends every ounce of their own DI resins. Others cannot say that. Thousands of hours of research have led to the best resins for reef use there is. The MaxCap and SilicaBuster resins are still the Cadillac of the industry 10+ years later. Again not all systems are created equal. Having used many of the popular systems on the market I would never consider going back. When my DI life went from 150 measured gallons to over 1000 gallons it made a believer out of me and thousands of other happy customers.

 

[Russ265]

There are very big differences.
Starting with the housings and components, if they are not UPC rated and constructed using ANSI/NSF components, which many eBay quality systems are not, then pass on it. These codes and testing agencies are for your protection.
All filters are not created equal. Look for a low micron, absolute or near absolute rated sediment filter so it actually protects the billions of tiny microscopic pores in the carbon block from particulates and colloidal materials. You often find 5 or 10 micron nominal rated or even unrated sediment filters in lower end systems. FYI, did you know you can see 40 microns with the unaided human eye? 5 or 10 microns nominal is about as effective as a screen door!
Look for no larger than a 1 micron solid extruded carbon block and 0.5 or 0.6 microns is better still. Not only is this effective for removing the chlorine from 12,000 to 20,000 gallons of normally chlorinated water they are also more than capable of removing the chlorine portion of chloramines and breaking the bond with the ammonia which is removed by the RO and DI, not the carbon as some will try and tell you. You do not need special chloramine carbons.
Spectrapure specially treats ALL their RO membranes with a special proprietary process which is proven to increase their efficiency. Then they either batch test or individually hand test those membranes for quality control. Most vendors ship dry untreated and untested membranes. Did you know for every 2% you increase the performance you double your DI life? Huge cost savings over the life of the system. Yes 0 TDS is 0 TDS but how much did it cost to produce and how long does it maintain that 0 TDS ? RO/DI systems are not all created equal.
Spectrapure custom blends every ounce of their own DI resins. Others cannot say that. Thousands of hours of research have led to the best resins for reef use there is. The MaxCap and SilicaBuster resins are still the Cadillac of the industry 10+ years later. Again not all systems are created equal. Having used many of the popular systems on the market I would never consider going back. When my DI life went from 150 measured gallons to over 1000 gallons it made a believer out of me and thousands of other happy customers.

at the end of this wall of text, you are still talking about how you got....

that being said....

you have convinced me to get an ro membrane from spectrapure for my year old ebay unit.

 

[d2mini]

Like I said, it all happens in the filters.

I don't measure it but i get far more than 150 gallons out of my DI resins from BRS or TheFilterGuys.
But who knows what your starting water is like compared to mine.
I'm sure Spectrapure makes good stuff. I'll try it sometime.

 

[AZDesertRat]

You might find this informative. The cost savings are well documented

http://spectrapure.com/spectrapure.com/frequently-asked-questions-p2#99percent

 

[AZDesertRat]

You might find this informative. The cost savings are well documented

http://spectrapure.com/spectrapure.com/frequently-asked-questions-p2#99percent

 

[Russ265]

Like I said, it all happens in the filters.

I don't measure it but i get far more than 150 gallons out of my DI resins from BRS or TheFilterGuys.
But who knows what your starting water is like compared to mine.
I'm sure Spectrapure makes good stuff. I'll try it sometime.

i get about 6-700 gallons before my di burns up entirely.

 

[AZDesertRat]

560-850 TDS softened treated surface water, 58-70 degrees F, boosted to 95-100 psi. Rejection rate after 8.5 years of use on the original RO membrane is 99.4%, RO only TDS bounces between 2 and 3 using a calibrated COM-100 handheld TDS meter and confirmed with a Thornton bench top conductivity meter. MaxCap DI cartridge lasts just over a year and SilicaBuster DI lasts 3 years. That's is with a 100G mixed reef with 30G sump with an ATO system and a 16G nano in Phoenix with no chiller and lots of evaporation.
Previous system was a Typhoon III and resins were from both vendors you mentioned plus AWI, Buckeye, Resin Depot and others and not a single one lasted over 150 gallons per properly packed fresh 20 oz refill. I tried everything I could think of including a new 75 gpd Dow Filmtec membrane which I took to a friend at Watts Premier and had bench tested and which was found to be within advertised specs.
I have been at this a long long time and finally found something that really works. Been there, done that and not going backwards. My system literally paid for itself in the beginning of its second year in operation.

 

[Saltine]

560-850 TDS softened treated surface water, 58-70 degrees F, boosted to 95-100 psi. Rejection rate after 8.5 years of use on the original RO membrane is 99.4%, RO only TDS bounces between 2 and 3 using a calibrated COM-100 handheld TDS meter and confirmed with a Thornton bench top conductivity meter. MaxCap DI cartridge lasts just over a year and SilicaBuster DI lasts 3 years. That's is with a 100G mixed reef with 30G sump with an ATO system and a 16G nano in Phoenix with no chiller and lots of evaporation.
Previous system was a Typhoon III and resins were from both vendors you mentioned plus AWI, Buckeye, Resin Depot and others and not a single one lasted over 150 gallons per properly packed fresh 20 oz refill. I tried everything I could think of including a new 75 gpd Dow Filmtec membrane which I took to a friend at Watts Premier and had bench tested and which was found to be within advertised specs.
I have been at this a long long time and finally found something that really works. Been there, done that and not going backwards. My system literally paid for itself in the beginning of its second year in operation.

Awesome, so in your mind what is the acceptable TDS before you start swapping filters/di?

 

[AZDesertRat]

When I see anything other than 0 TDS after a minute or so it is time to change DI resin. With a dual DI I monitor the TDS from each filter individually so I can catch the first exhausted cartridge before it affects the second one . I go through 3 MaxCap DI cartridges before I start to see any TDS out of the downstream SilicaBuster and it needs changing.

I will change my RO membrane when it drops to around 98% rejection rate, probably when I see say 6-8 TDS in the RO only water.

I change the sediment and carbon block filters every 18 months or so based on headloss using pressure gauges on the incoming and post carbon filter. When I start seeing a 2-3 psi drop it's time. I also use a low range chlorine test kit to monitor my carbon block for chlorine breakthru. You can't go by TDS for these two since the remove big stuff in the 0.5 micron range and up. TDS is in the 0.0001 micron range.

 

[melev]

Its not just the membrane. What protects that membrane? What are the micron ranges and are they nominal rated, near absolute or absolute rated? What is the DI resin and how is it configured? What membrane specifically is it, there are many that even Dow Filmtec makes that are not suited for reef systems. What flow restrictor does it have and what is the exact waste ratio? Does it come with an inline pressure gauge? Yoy rarely if ever find reef quality RO/DI systems on ebay, most of their vendors are out to make a quick buck, not to have a long term relationship with a reef hobbyist. Do your homework.

I don't mind the long term relationship with my customers at all. Had a hobbyist stop by today to get new filters for his RO/DI system that he got from me way back when I still had the angled tank running. That means 2010 or earlier. And he said his filtration was dated 2013. Granted he only has a 34g tank, but he decided to change the filters now that the TDS rose to 1. Those filters lasted him a very very very long time. When leaving, I called out to him "See you in three years," as he chuckled going to his car.

 

[choff]

When I see anything other than 0 TDS after a minute or so it is time to change DI resin. With a dual DI I monitor the TDS from each filter individually so I can catch the first exhausted cartridge before it affects the second one . I go through 3 MaxCap DI cartridges before I start to see any TDS out of the downstream SilicaBuster and it needs changing.

I will change my RO membrane when it drops to around 98% rejection rate, probably when I see say 6-8 TDS in the RO only water.

I change the sediment and carbon block filters every 18 months or so based on headloss using pressure gauges on the incoming and post carbon filter. When I start seeing a 2-3 psi drop it's time. I also use a low range chlorine test kit to monitor my carbon block for chlorine breakthru. You can't go by TDS for these two since the remove big stuff in the 0.5 micron range and up. TDS is in the 0.0001 micron range.

AZ, your posts are always great and I've read many, but I'm not sure I've ever seen exactly what your system is composed of. Do you mind pointing me at post that has the system you are running? I'm interested to know how many stages, what's in each stage , psi you are running at and what flow restricter you are using? I'm also curious how often you back flush and any steps you take when turning the system off between uses. Finally, any steps you take when replacing each filter? I was going to PM you, but figured others would be interested in the info as well. I'm sure you have posted all this already several times.

I appreciate the info, I'm in the process of redoing my RODI setup. A big thanks!

 

[120reefkeeper]

not sold on "it must be spectrapure or it's junk" bandwagon.

the ro unit you purchase from ebay just houses the filters. if you dislike the carbon, sediment, membrane, or even resin, then swap it to brand of choice.

me personally. you cant get lower than 0 tds. i dont care what brand it is.

i change my sediment and carbon filters every 2nd di change. reason being... i make over 150 gallons a month (with a booster pump to 110 psi). someone with a 40 gallon isnt going to chew through nearly the filtration.

my .02

Now don't get me wrong. I never said "it must be spectrapure or it's junk " bandwagon . As stated by many others there is a difference. I've had three different systems. Kent, Typhoon III , and now spectrapure . True zero TDS is zero TDS . It's not about that at all but the overall cost of ownership. From the cost of the system , to the cost of filters and how long it takes to exhaust them. I routinely make 160 gallons per month or more for multiple systems. I'm not using a booster And I only have 50psi incoming pressure. I do chew through a lot of filtration with three tanks running. And this system has greatly out performed them all. I hope someday you get to experience the difference.... It's well documented.

My .03

 

[AZDesertRat]

My current RO/DI for the last 8.5 years is the Spectrapure MaxCap UHE-100 found here:
http://spectrapure.com/RO-RODI/RODI-SYSTEMS/MaxCap®-1-1-Ultra-High-Efficiency-100-GPD-RO-DI-System

My softened tap water TDS varies between 550 and 850+ depending on the time of year and which sources they are using at the time. Incoming pressure is 68 psi at 57 to 70 degrees F. With the UHE I boost that pressure to between 95 and 100 psi. The sedimet filter is a 0.2 micron absolute rated ZetaZorb and the single carbon block is 0.5 microns. The RO membrane is Spectrapures guaranteed 99% rejection rate version and the dual DI contains a MaxCap and a SilicaBuster cartridge. The flow restrictor is set at slightly less than 1:1 waste ratio. This is possible due to the fact the UHE uses stored DI water to flush the system on a timed basis when operating and again on shutdown so it stores or pickles the membrane in DI water to keep it operating like new.

It does not have any "flush kits" on the waste line. After 8.5 years it is still producing around 135 GPD at 99.4% rejection rate. I replace the MaxCap DI about once a year when I first start seeing any evidence of TDS between the two DI cartridges and the SilicaBuster lasts about 3 years before I see TDS in the finished water. I replace the sediment and carbon filters every 18+ months based on headloss and chlorine breakthru. The system is never depressurized, it is hooked up to my 23 gallon ATO all the time using a solenoid valve and dual float switches set 12" or 11 measured gallons apart so I get long filter runs.

Previous to that I had a MaxCap 180 dual membrane system for about a year and previous to that is was a MaxCap 90 for a couple years. Prior to that it was an AWI Typhoon III and before that a Watts Premier drinking water system that was highly modified. Prior to that was a no name generic 25 GPD RO. I also currently have a Watts Premier zero waste drinking water system and a H2O Splash 75 GPD RO system. Since water treatment is my profession I like to buy systems and test their performance against the manufacturers claims.

 

[120reefkeeper]

Nice system! This is the one I run.


http://spectrapure.com/6-Stage-Chlo...em-w-SilicaBuster-MaxCap-DI&filter_name=Chlor

 

[choff]

My current RO/DI for the last 8.5 years is the Spectrapure MaxCap UHE-100 found here:
http://spectrapure.com/RO-RODI/RODI-SYSTEMS/MaxCap[emoji768]-1-1-Ultra-High-Efficiency-100-GPD-RO-DI-System

My softened tap water TDS varies between 550 and 850+ depending on the time of year and which sources they are using at the time. Incoming pressure is 68 psi at 57 to 70 degrees F. With the UHE I boost that pressure to between 95 and 100 psi. The sedimet filter is a 0.2 micron absolute rated ZetaZorb and the single carbon block is 0.5 microns. The RO membrane is Spectrapures guaranteed 99% rejection rate version and the dual DI contains a MaxCap and a SilicaBuster cartridge. The flow restrictor is set at slightly less than 1:1 waste ratio. This is possible due to the fact the UHE uses stored DI water to flush the system on a timed basis when operating and again on shutdown so it stores or pickles the membrane in DI water to keep it operating like new.

It does not have any "flush kits" on the waste line. After 8.5 years it is still producing around 135 GPD at 99.4% rejection rate. I replace the MaxCap DI about once a year when I first start seeing any evidence of TDS between the two DI cartridges and the SilicaBuster lasts about 3 years before I see TDS in the finished water. I replace the sediment and carbon filters every 18+ months based on headloss and chlorine breakthru. The system is never depressurized, it is hooked up to my 23 gallon ATO all the time using a solenoid valve and dual float switches set 12" or 11 measured gallons apart so I get long filter runs.

Previous to that I had a MaxCap 180 dual membrane system for about a year and previous to that is was a MaxCap 90 for a couple years. Prior to that it was an AWI Typhoon III and before that a Watts Premier drinking water system that was highly modified. Prior to that was a no name generic 25 GPD RO. I also currently have a Watts Premier zero waste drinking water system and a H2O Splash 75 GPD RO system. Since water treatment is my profession I like to buy systems and test their performance against the manufacturers claims.

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to write that up. [emoji106]

That's a great idea on the float switches. I initially had mine set up with a manual float valve, but I didn't like the fast cycling. I also didn't like the membranes sitting in "dirty" water so I went manually turning my system on/off and flushing. Love how the UHE does that for you. I'm big on automation and my RODI was behind the curve compared to everything else in my system.

One question, my RODI unit is about 50 feet from ATO. This time around I'm debating if I should go 3/8" fittings. Thoughts? I have an 8800 so pressure is not an issue.

 

[AZDesertRat]

At the few ounces per minute a RO runs at there is not much headloss in 1/4" tubing. One way to see the effect is to measure your waste ratio using a measuring cup and clock or watch exactly as you have it configured presently then disconnect the 1/4" treated water line or stick a short piece in a place into bucket and measure the waste with the minimal or reduced headloss for a comparison. It may or may not change the waste ratio meaning you might be more efficient with the larger tubing. I doubt it is much headloss though if it is on the same floor and not vertical.