Ok, so mid March I transplanted my 29 gallon reef tank into a new 40 breeder. I used new live sand, moved over the 35 lbs of live rock I had in the 29, and added 10 lbs more rock (thought it was dry base rock, turned out to be dead live rock). When I did the transplant I took a couple fish back to the lfs, and moved my clowns into my qt tank. Currently in the 40 breeder are a handful of LPS and soft corals, which all but 1 hammer seem to be doing fine, no noticeable problems. Other live stock in the tank is 2 cleaner shrimp, 2 emerald crab, 1 porcelain crab, 10 hermits, and about 15 astrea and cerith snails. The new tank was being set up in the same spot as the old one so I had to move everything over. Here it is almost 2 months to the day and still getting .5 ammonia, .5 nitrite and 100 nitrate. How much longer should I expect this cycle to go on? I have just been treating with prime and have been doing about a 12 gallon water change per week to help combat levels to keep the coral from being too affected. Anything I can be doing differently to help things along faster without putting the corals and inverts at risk?
How long for this cycle?
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prime causes false nitrite positives you don't have to test for or factor nitrite. if you got rid of the nitrite test kit forever you'd be fine, only what ammonia does matters. Animals give great feedback about .5 constant ammonia, some would be dead and all would show signs of anger and the tank would smell obvious
smell some of that rehydrated dried live rock outside the tank, lift some out. maybe even break a section in half to check innards, anything smell? so far no reason this cant be classic api misread on ammonia. the regular live rock you moved over is fine, it will skip cycle. if that dried and rehydrated lr had lots of organics those can be contributing to rot but this is ultra rare, and it will stink when you sniff it outside of the tank. I bet its testing misreading on the ammonia side we do have some seachem misreads and no telling how prime affects it, its a known adulterant in testing.
the nitrate reading proves nitrifiers are there, and for any system to be constantly leaking trace ammonia it means you have a source producing over 5 ppm a day 24x7 since live rocks and sand can always reduce around 4 or 5 ppm, there's likely no source of decay that big in your tank I bet this is testing limitations. get a second test confirmed by non seachem non api would be ideal after a huge water change to reset the palette from the dosers/additives etc.
smell some of that rehydrated dried live rock outside the tank, lift some out. maybe even break a section in half to check innards, anything smell? so far no reason this cant be classic api misread on ammonia. the regular live rock you moved over is fine, it will skip cycle. if that dried and rehydrated lr had lots of organics those can be contributing to rot but this is ultra rare, and it will stink when you sniff it outside of the tank. I bet its testing misreading on the ammonia side we do have some seachem misreads and no telling how prime affects it, its a known adulterant in testing.
the nitrate reading proves nitrifiers are there, and for any system to be constantly leaking trace ammonia it means you have a source producing over 5 ppm a day 24x7 since live rocks and sand can always reduce around 4 or 5 ppm, there's likely no source of decay that big in your tank I bet this is testing limitations. get a second test confirmed by non seachem non api would be ideal after a huge water change to reset the palette from the dosers/additives etc.
Well I have also heard some of cat owners having constant ammonia readings in their tanks as well...and I do own 2 cats. Ok, I didn't know prime could give false nitrite readings so that is good to know. I double checked ammonia with my api kit and it gave the same reading. I normally use the seachem kit so I can test for locked and free floating ammonia. I will pull a rock out and smell it when I get home and see. In general I don't notice any smells from my tank, and am using 0 tds rodi. Yeah all live stock seems to be fine, and in fact the snails have been laying eggs constantly lately. Even caught my one stomatella snail blowing out eggs the other day. Have actually been getting some really good new growth on my mushrooms, Duncan, zoas, gsp, torch just formed two mouths so is in the process of splitting and a new head popping up on my acan.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Your tests are fine and what you are seeing isn't uncommon. You are just in a situation where the material in your new rock is decaying faster than your bacteria can process it. If you would pull the new rock out your ammonia would drop to 0ppm quickly.
If you were getting false positives you wouldn't see the increase in nitrates. That is the confirmation for decay being your problem.
This is why most people cure their live rock, or previously live rock, separately prior to putting it in their system.
If you were getting false positives you wouldn't see the increase in nitrates. That is the confirmation for decay being your problem.
This is why most people cure their live rock, or previously live rock, separately prior to putting it in their system.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
No real way to know. It is hard to say how much dead material is in the rock or how quickly it is decaying. Eventually your filter will catch up to the point that you only have a nitrate issue.
If you want to get fish back in your system you can pull the new rock out and put them in a cheap plastic tub with salt water. Add a heater and small powerhead and let it cure outside of your tank. Since you can run it at higher temps this tends to go much faster.
Thanks. Well looks like have have some considering to do. I wasn't looking at adding fish back until middle of next month anyway, I guess I will let it go a few more weeks and see how it goes. Once I realized I had bought dead rock, I pulled it back out and clean as much organics off as I could. I can definitely tell things aren't building up as quickly as before, will just be a pain as some of that new rock is a support for the rest of my rock work.
unable to tell due to variability in degredation of those jerkied/then rehydrated proteins...when we make cycle completion prediction charts and threads its based on the rocks having no organics in tow
cycles without extra organics adding to the bioloading are usually compliant by 30 - 40 days underwater, meaning they digest 1 or 2 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours and have no other ammonia until added by an outside source. nitrite wont matter nor nitrate either, though trate is handy for algae management and gauging nutrient in/out conditions
cycles without extra organics adding to the bioloading are usually compliant by 30 - 40 days underwater, meaning they digest 1 or 2 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours and have no other ammonia until added by an outside source. nitrite wont matter nor nitrate either, though trate is handy for algae management and gauging nutrient in/out conditions
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Can you post what your current parameters are?
Did a water change when I removed the cycling rock on saturday. Only 35 lbs of cured live rock left in the tank. This rock shouldn't have any decaying organics as it was established in my old 29 gallon tank for about 9 months before being switched into my 40 breeder. Parameters were .5 ammonia, 1 nitrite and 75 nitrate
but some of the leftover water was still from the curing process from the old rock, correct? still indeterminate due to X amnts of organic decay markers still left in the measure, but you would have a cleaner test bed by doing a full water change not a partial. that live rock if it never left water would be registering zeros if you measured it from clean water, as there's nothing to cause loss as it sits. any nitrite and ammonia so far, if the testing is valid, is still from the group decay water. standard regular cured live rock doesn't leach nitrites or raw ammonia sustained.
your cycle is a little more complicated than others since it was a blended cycle if im reading correctly...uncured rocks curing among cured rocks...and the state of high ammonia from the prior condition can kill small animals on your normal rock, like pods worms and starfish, but not its bacteria.
If your verified cured rock is leaking ammonia and that test is verified and accurate (hardly ever is in cycling threads) then its the loss of those benthic creatures causing the readings, though there is a 1% chance of this occurring.
When posters make threads comparing test kit readings among several samples and among several kits, and testers, we get ranging readings. Check em
When we are dealing with cycle threads, nobody debates test accuracy its a duality we have to factor in all cycling settings. in time in turns out we should take test readings with a grain of salt and within context of the whole tank picture/known history of the substrate imo
your cycle is a little more complicated than others since it was a blended cycle if im reading correctly...uncured rocks curing among cured rocks...and the state of high ammonia from the prior condition can kill small animals on your normal rock, like pods worms and starfish, but not its bacteria.
If your verified cured rock is leaking ammonia and that test is verified and accurate (hardly ever is in cycling threads) then its the loss of those benthic creatures causing the readings, though there is a 1% chance of this occurring.
When posters make threads comparing test kit readings among several samples and among several kits, and testers, we get ranging readings. Check em
When we are dealing with cycle threads, nobody debates test accuracy its a duality we have to factor in all cycling settings. in time in turns out we should take test readings with a grain of salt and within context of the whole tank picture/known history of the substrate imo
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I expect you will be pleasantly surprised and that your tank should be ready soon. As Brandon has said, it is a complex situation that you are in so it is hard to say for certain but I think you are days away, not weeks, from being ready to say your tank has "cycled".
Yeah, about 50% of the water left is from the cycle with the uncured rock. I haven't noticed any significant change in my pod population, not to say none could have died, but they have been all over the glass more than ever. Haven't noticed any deaths as far as snails, shrimp or crabs either. LPS and softie corals that are in the tank are all growing as well. I figured the reading I have are left from the noncured rock, but was hoping now that it is no longer in the tank that the cured rock would be able to process that ammonia and nitrites.
