How long for this cycle?
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Brew12
Electrical Gru
The ratio of NH3 to NH4 is based on pH. I am surprised though because at the proper pH for a reef tank you should have more NH3 and less NH4
Well it would appear that the problem in my DT is something else. The tub I moved my rock to on Saturday reads half the levels my DT is. DT levels haven't dropped at all. And the tub used tank water, so it has actually reduced numbers compared to what is going on in the DT. I am kind of lost on what might be going on with the display tank.
from what you posted so far, only the reading of sustained raw ammonia will matter in the dt and indicate a problem and this is so rare I give it .5% chance of happening though I agree something is confounding the readings so far
do you have pics
I expect to see a display tank of all closed corals, slightly cloudy water too based on any concern of sustained free ammonia. a bit of a smell too, not as nice as true zero ammonia water would smell. I would estimate human olfaction able to detect trace ammonia water as well or better than any hobby test kit, I mean we're super-primed to smell nitrogenous waste for a reason. When you take the params of nitrate, nitrite and ammonia and literally force the entire basis to go solely on true verified ammonia readings while excluding the other two from consideration, the entire picture and reaction sequence changes 100%. the verification of the reading is such a key part of the build up.
do you have pics
I expect to see a display tank of all closed corals, slightly cloudy water too based on any concern of sustained free ammonia. a bit of a smell too, not as nice as true zero ammonia water would smell. I would estimate human olfaction able to detect trace ammonia water as well or better than any hobby test kit, I mean we're super-primed to smell nitrogenous waste for a reason. When you take the params of nitrate, nitrite and ammonia and literally force the entire basis to go solely on true verified ammonia readings while excluding the other two from consideration, the entire picture and reaction sequence changes 100%. the verification of the reading is such a key part of the build up.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2629085&page=3
that was a very neat thread to track. I even pm'd him here and tried to initiate discussion about his tank but it fell to the wayside I didn't get final outcomes.
any aged system that leaks ammonia, supposedly, and has no missing fish and no corals closed up and no tank smell is behaving in a way no other reef tanks behave so the testing automatically becomes suspect. we did have the classic .25 sustained claim here, and in our cycling threads we required 2 proofs of those claims for a reason (from two different brand test kits)
the two kits rarely have the same reading on a low level sample. We can't get ten different posters to post ten even readings in posts, testing varies wildly in reefing at the low levels and we can find examples of peoples frustration levels going skyward when a test seems to indicate we have the one outlier tank in all of reefing. Im going to initiate a thread to test that claim, in fact.
That guy had some pro troubleshooting in that thread. The forum mod, some pm'ers who inject themselves into others ammonia hunts, and I had asked for tank pics along the way for good reason too.
Anytime low level readings persist in a tank that met the end of a cycle test, and the animals are acting normally, and things don't smell, it always comes back to the test or the tester in some way.
that was a very neat thread to track. I even pm'd him here and tried to initiate discussion about his tank but it fell to the wayside I didn't get final outcomes.
any aged system that leaks ammonia, supposedly, and has no missing fish and no corals closed up and no tank smell is behaving in a way no other reef tanks behave so the testing automatically becomes suspect. we did have the classic .25 sustained claim here, and in our cycling threads we required 2 proofs of those claims for a reason (from two different brand test kits)
the two kits rarely have the same reading on a low level sample. We can't get ten different posters to post ten even readings in posts, testing varies wildly in reefing at the low levels and we can find examples of peoples frustration levels going skyward when a test seems to indicate we have the one outlier tank in all of reefing. Im going to initiate a thread to test that claim, in fact.
That guy had some pro troubleshooting in that thread. The forum mod, some pm'ers who inject themselves into others ammonia hunts, and I had asked for tank pics along the way for good reason too.
Anytime low level readings persist in a tank that met the end of a cycle test, and the animals are acting normally, and things don't smell, it always comes back to the test or the tester in some way.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Give it a little more time. You never know what organics had already been dissolved into your tank water Everything that was lose in the rock you removed was already in the DT water. Your tank needs time to process that. Organics don't immediately break down into ammonia, especially if they have been dried out. Stay the course and have patience. You are going the right direction.
Ok. I was just expecting high numbers in the tub with rock, and was shocked to see it lower than the display that had no change.
Yeah there is no noticeable smell from the DT, or the tub. If you pull the rocks in the tub out though there is one rock with a bit of smell though.
I have tested with 2 different api kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Also tested with seachem kit for ammonia and salifert kit for nitrate. All tests results are fairly comparable except a decent jump on nitrate between salifert and the api, salifert being lower.
Yeah there is no noticeable smell from the DT, or the tub. If you pull the rocks in the tub out though there is one rock with a bit of smell though.
I have tested with 2 different api kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Also tested with seachem kit for ammonia and salifert kit for nitrate. All tests results are fairly comparable except a decent jump on nitrate between salifert and the api, salifert being lower.
those corals indicate tolerance levels are fine imo
agreed your testing and procedure may be revealing levels simply below concern for the corals, in the end what corals do is such a fine overall picture when dealing with ammonia because it will truly burn them where they react. small creatures like the tiny live rock fanworms are the best...they'll never ever open up in raw ammonia.
if you are testing and getting trite and there's any chance of compounds still mid breakdown I agree w Brew its still ironing out, and you are past the concern phase from what I can tell.
*there is a practice online we can search where people dose raw ammonia into their matured/awesome reefs as nitrogen source*
even though we work against it in cycling threads, the practice is there and some people want that source due to purity and a massive affinity for uptake on the reef. a reef is so ammonia hungry they know most dosings are uptaken in hours and they aren't spiking the system to cycling levels...that's a neat instance where someone with a perfectly normal reef exposes animals to low level ammonia and they're fine. yours might get exposed to trace levels but its nbd and will iron out fast, very fast now.
and to that you have people dosing driveway deicer, stump remover, bug killer (as a dip) and bleach into reefs so the ammonia and a tad of nitrite is pretty tame.
agreed your testing and procedure may be revealing levels simply below concern for the corals, in the end what corals do is such a fine overall picture when dealing with ammonia because it will truly burn them where they react. small creatures like the tiny live rock fanworms are the best...they'll never ever open up in raw ammonia.
if you are testing and getting trite and there's any chance of compounds still mid breakdown I agree w Brew its still ironing out, and you are past the concern phase from what I can tell.
*there is a practice online we can search where people dose raw ammonia into their matured/awesome reefs as nitrogen source*
even though we work against it in cycling threads, the practice is there and some people want that source due to purity and a massive affinity for uptake on the reef. a reef is so ammonia hungry they know most dosings are uptaken in hours and they aren't spiking the system to cycling levels...that's a neat instance where someone with a perfectly normal reef exposes animals to low level ammonia and they're fine. yours might get exposed to trace levels but its nbd and will iron out fast, very fast now.
and to that you have people dosing driveway deicer, stump remover, bug killer (as a dip) and bleach into reefs so the ammonia and a tad of nitrite is pretty tame.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
This +1
I would also point out that some corals and algae will consume ammonia as food.
Have a beer and relax, your tank will be ready before you know it.
