How long until you achieved consistent success?

[Susan Bates]

I still have trouble with some sps bleaching and not sure why??

 

[SeaDweller]

Maybe I'm slow, or just haven't Googled the right thing... Can y'all say more about this, "Balance between nutrients, alk, and light?"

It’s often suggested that higher alk promotes faster growth, but in doing so, one needs more available nutrients (N and P)/building blocks to aid in the growth of the coral. Sometimes reefers get in a trap of having “pristine” water conditions with little available nutrients (ULNS or undetectable levels) for the coral, high alk (eg 9-10+ dkh), and high/too intense of lighting (too strong or too long of a photoperiod) and that can lead to tip burn, bleaching and death.

 

[McPuff]

I'm still learning. :0)

It took me several years. Finally realized I needed higher flow, then I needed higher light, then I needed more stable parameters (so I began dosing). It was always a single change, monitor, then make another change, then monitor. Once I started to have more patience I noticed my SPS did much better. Slowly making changes, keeping a stable environment (especially ALK), that's the key.

I'd say this took me about 5 years with a couple house moves mixed in. My current system has been running pretty smoothly as SPS dominant system for around 6 years (though the system is older than that... and I had one tank upgrade about 3 years ago).

If I were to start a new system today, I'd be prepared to wait a full year until I was confident that the tank was mature and SPS would thrive. That's just my mindset.

 

[michael giordano]

I’ll preface my experience with this... I started at age 11 having general success moved to sps quickly saved up for halides/VHO’s/more maxijets. I was constantly on our gigantic desktop computer pouring over Reef Keeping TOTM articles that was definition of a fun lol. Back I tried wild/mari colonies with very limited success it was frustrating for first year or so. Things changed with ORA/true cultured coral and understanding the Alk plateau. About 2 years it took to get results, and at that point I had mature sps/growth/there wasn’t “struggles”. I would’ve been less time overall I attribute my age/maturity level.

Fast forward nearly 15 or so years continued sucess the “struggles” returned, and after setting up my current tank post a short exit from reefing. My core was there I could keep sps alive, lackluster results at best. I bought into all the obsessive nutrient control/dosing everything in existence/fancy gadgets. My point in rambling on is this once I let go of new era methods and stripped my system of anything that wasn’t fundamental. I was working against myself and success was unattainable. 2 months after I was back on track. I simplified my life the sps are happy. Classic Reef keeping TOTM are my bible.

Exact same route for me in this hobby, pouring over TOTM articles on another site. Growing sps and learning truly what a mature tank is and how alk is key, every other testable element can swing a little more with less issues. Then also a learning curve from a tank with mini colonies to a constitant tank with soft ball size colonies.
Then a 5 year break from hobby and back in with smaller tank of sps using new and old tech and being successful.

 

[t blackwell]

Instant success as soon as I stopped worrying about no3 and po4.

how where you able to do this? please share and elaborate

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

how where you able to do this? please share and elaborate

I should of said stop chasing “recommended” low no3 and po4. For my system my sps react much better with 0.15-0.30 po4 and 5-25 no3. I had zero success using gfo, carbon dosing etc.

 

[FishPersonFL]

Maybe I'm slow, or just haven't Googled the right thing... Can y'all say more about this, "Balance between nutrients, alk, and light?"

As far as I know (I haven't done a ton of research, just what a fish friend/guru I know has told me and the limited I have read), that if you have very low phosphates (especially in that case) higher than natural levels of alk can (and will in my case) kill sps. I think it's due to skeleton growing too fast in relation to nutirients they have to build soft tissue or something along those lines. Throwing in light into the mix, higher light can cause too higher of a growth rate given lower nutrients, again causing the skeleton to grow too fast (or something like that). Nitrates, though still need to be below 7 ppm ideally. For me, also with my lighting for some reason almost none of my acros can stand being higher than lowest level, they need very slow acclimation (possibly again due to the other fators).
I find in the end, for my tank, if I stray above 7.8 or so dkh, while having my low Phosph (under 7 ppBilion << for some reason I do not try to keep it that low), then things get f'd up . But really all i need to do is keep my alk 7.3-7.8 and I'm fine, as everything else is already stable, hardly ever changes. The main reason it too me 1 1/2 years for this tank is it took me that long to get it right (as far as reading, and my friend's help), trial and error, and figuring out that hanna checkers can read totally wrong (side note).

 

[scott11106]

I had instant success and it continues but i do have some losses if i placed in wrong place or not paying attention when placed. I really think it has to do with setting up your tank really well and dialing it in before starting to add sps, then doing all the things that make the magic happen, for instance i have apex complete daily water changes, auto DOS cal/alk (just changed over to cal reactor) test parameters often and watch the nutrients. I also agree with previous posts as I could never have done it without this site and all of you, great people, as i learned everything on here !

 

[t blackwell]

I should of said stop chasing “recommended” low no3 and po4. For my system my sps react much better with 0.15-0.30 po4 and 5-25 no3. I had zero success using gfo, carbon dosing etc.

K gotcha..so no carbon dosing eh?

 

[Punchanello]

I explained to flatlandreefer in detail, my thoughts are very simple. You're missing what I'm saying.. to clarify, I'm screaming --> NUTRIENTS MAKE SPS EASY.

If you have nutrients SPS are as easy as any coral. I completely stand by that. I've been reef keeping since I was a kid, and my whole life people talked about SPS being so hard, so challenging, so much work..

It's not hard. It's not challenging. It's not extra work. All you need is equipment and nutrients. The people who advocate ULNS systems have frequent issues.

There's not much to say here, it's that simple. Have nutrients = easy to keep SPS. That is the case for everybody who has reached out for help from me, and that is the cornerstone of a healthy reef.

I think "SPS are hard" is a complete myth. It's oy hard if you make it hard, by following bad advice.

I get people to feed more, stop using filter socks, remove chaeto/fuge.

Again, there's not much to say and it's not complicated. I advocate having nutrients to avoid nearly all problems. If you don't understand the relationship between nutrients, alkalinity, and light intensity then I would need to write out a whole article on the subject -- I'm assuming anybody reading this understands this part

I am nearly two years in to the hobby. I got in to it because I liked SPS which I pretty much tried to keep straight away. From everything I read when I started it seemed to me that high nutrients were sps keepers' number 1 problem. So I invested in a high quality fuge light and over-sized skimmer straight off the bat. For over a year I struggled. Any minor alk swing, change in lighting intensity or spectrum or other minor hiccup saw frags and wild colonies go up in smoke.

I lost sps because they were essentially running on empty and didn't have the means to cope or adjust to minor changes. I have had more success in the last 2 months having turned off my fuge, adding fish and and letting nutrients rise than I have had in the previous 18.

I now realise is that 'high' No3 and Po4 aren't a problem because they make SPS hard to keep, they are a complaint because they fuel algae growth. New reefers are fed an unrealistic expectation that they can somehow avoid algae growth and magically grow SPS. That's BS. The same conditions that make for healthy corals often also make for healthy algae.

 

[Jettareefer223]

Exact same route for me in this hobby, pouring over TOTM articles on another site. Growing sps and learning truly what a mature tank is and how alk is key, every other testable element can swing a little more with less issues. Then also a learning curve from a tank with mini colonies to a constitant tank with soft ball size colonies.
Then a 5 year break from hobby and back in with smaller tank of sps using new and old tech and being successful.

Hey Micheal glad to see like minds here!. TOTM articles especially the older ones are pure gold and some most valuable information I’ve sequestered for any one source. A true testament to simplicity/ patience/ use of redundancy. I found Michael Paletta and Sanjay Joshi to be reefing fundamentalists who for decades have preached “the method of simplicity”. Both have produced a wealth of information with their research/publishings profoundly impacted the hobby and the industry as a whole. I have a lot respect for them they’ve help all of us.

 

[Paul B]

About 25 years. But they didn't sell SPS for my first 25 years.

 

[infinite0180]

So theres really no benefit from having say 0.08 ppm PO4 vs 0.02 ppm PO4? I ask because with feeding alone it seems the best i can do is 0.02.

 

[Jettareefer223]

l

So theres really no benefit from having say 0.08 ppm PO4 vs 0.02 ppm PO4? I ask because with feeding alone it seems the best i can do is 0.02.

It’s a negligible amount variance, and no profound difference would observed from our view point. Say the difference 05 -.50 is significant for example. If you have a hard time maintaining po4 levels, your nitrate level could possibly be the source of the issue.

For elaborate on the whole increases algae growth phenomenon. It exists only when you drive down or have drastic imbalance with P and N. Say if I’m currently running .25 P and 25 ppm N I decide to add gfo driving P way down. I’ve broken equilibrium which in turn would more then likely result bloom of something undesirable.
The red feild ratio partially defines this along with ratio it which nutrients are effectively utilized. I found if proper ratio’s established running low nutrient system when forgoing removal of both N and P methods and or equally reducing at a rate that maintains said ratio they stay in balance in most circumstances. Same applies new tanks oncr cycled, and you start establishing livestock/feeding it generally it will be homogeneous. Once a bacteria/micro fauna population form as Livestock is introduced.

 

[Jettareefer223]

I should of said stop chasing “recommended” low no3 and po4. For my system my sps react much better with 0.15-0.30 po4 and 5-25 no3. I had zero success using gfo, carbon dosing etc.

I don’t give two bleeps what it is anymore I tested it last Jan 2019 results werePo4 .19-.22 Hanna 774 / No3 20-25 ppm (salifert). Very much in line with you numbers!!

For anyone wanting further insight on the heinous crime of running high nutrients w/ sps.... My learning curve was a ultimately a realization of my desired results (rich coral color/vitality). I acknowledge my problem was focusing on the “way” or standard whether general or low nutrient which had absolutely failed to produce anything close. Now I literally let the coral relay the info, and observing them making changes in feeding/maintenance accordingly. Even my trace elements I don’t chase unicorns it’s stable I just an set acceptable range stay within it. (ex: ALK 7.5-8.5/ Cal 440-475/Mag 1300-1400/ K 400-420) so let’s call it a target, not life or death ruin your whole day type of arrangement. In 14 months I have stags growing out the water and big colonies.

NSW guidelines for traces is totally acceptable, but in a closed system the demand (or level) of nutrients is determined by a multitude of variables. A formal guideline isn’t exactly viable solution as not one tank is exactly the same. One example that is probably most prevalent hands down is lighting . If you have long durations of intense light higher nutrient levels will be needed vs. lower intensity of light/short durations require the opposite.

 

[Rams54]

I have several sps corals, but still leery of acros. I'm retired and experimenting with acros to see if they live is too expensive for my wallet. Even a small frag is $60.00 to $70.00 and up. If I could find a cheap frag I would go for it.

 

[Adventures In Reefing]

There is a big difference between being comfortable and over confident. I know tomorrow I could have an issue and lose everything if I do not have redundancies and emergency plans. I have been doing this for 20 years and I lose stuff now and again (rare but it does happen) sometimes with no changes to the system and other times I will put in what should be a slow grower and it takes off. If you care about the animal and its needs and you do your best to provide for it it will happen for you. Some of the best hobbyists lose stuff just ask Dr. Sanjay Joshi, you cant let that discourage you from trying.

 

[infinite0180]

l
It’s a negligible amount variance, and no profound difference would observed from our view point. Say the difference 05 -.50 is significant for example. If you have a hard time maintaining po4 levels, your nitrate level could possibly be the source of the issue.

For elaborate on the whole increases algae growth phenomenon. It exists only when you drive down or have drastic imbalance with P and N. Say if I’m currently running .25 P and 25 ppm N I decide to add gfo driving P way down. I’ve broken equilibrium which in turn would more then likely result bloom of something undesirable.
The red feild ratio partially defines this along with ratio it which nutrients are effectively utilized. I found if proper ratio’s established running low nutrient system when forgoing removal of both N and P methods and or equally reducing at a rate that maintains said ratio they stay in balance in most circumstances. Same applies new tanks oncr cycled, and you start establishing livestock/feeding it generally it will be homogeneous. Once a bacteria/micro fauna population form as Livestock is introduced.

My last nitrate test came back at 9 pmm from ATI ICP test. My red sea no3 kit is about to expire. I really stepped up the feeding recently though so i should get a new kit and retest no3. If my po4 is running on the low end, roughly what should my no3 be? Anything around 10 ppm acceptable?

 

[Jettareefer223]

My last nitrate test came back at 9 pmm from ATI ICP test. My red sea no3 kit is about to expire. I really stepped up the feeding recently though so i should get a new kit and retest no3. If my po4 is running on the low end, roughly what should my no3 be? Anything around 10 ppm acceptable?

Definitely having a good kit would be helpful to align your numbers. API isn’t going to be best since 0 truly equates to some mystery number between 1-10+. Salifert is the best honestly or the basic Red Sea kit (the one w/o fancy color wheel). I’ve been doing this at professional level servicing reef tanks for years used all of the kits. Salifert get my vote for simplicity/ consistent results/affordability. 10 ppm is fine 25 won’t hurt anything I’ve never seen negative results or impact on growth (SanJay was running 50 ppm for a while back with nothing extremely happy robust corals). I would try match that with .10-.15 p if 10ppm N is your baseline.

 

[infinite0180]

Definitely having a good kit would be helpful to align your numbers. API isn’t going to be best since 0 truly equates to some mystery between 10+. Salifert is the be honestly or the basic Red Sea kit (the one w/o fancy color wheel). I’ve been doing this at professional level servicing reef tanks for years used all of the kits. Salifert get my vote simplicity/ consistent /affordable. 10 ppm is fine 20 won’t hurt anything I’ve never seen negative results or impact on growth. I would try match that with .10-.15 p.

Heard good things about the NYOS kit. Best way to get my po4 up to .1? Continue feeding heavy and see what happens?