How much can a 2x4 support horizontally?

[WVNed]

You definitely can get "exact" stress load and support requirements using the sagulator online calculator.

The Sagulator – WoodBin

I did so when building all of my 180 stands. SYP is not an option there. I can't get syp on the west coast. Our 2x4 are mostly Douglas Fir.

As you elude to, of course there are differences. Pine vs spruce vs syp all have slightly different qualities. One knot in any of them could change the integrity hugely. My above ascertation that 2x4 is enough, In this instance is soley based in experience building.

I guess that is what I am saying. The 2x4x8s I have been getting recently don't match what I have used in the past closely enough to trust my experience. they do not hold fasteners as well, split way more easily and warp a great deal more. As for knots is is obvious that some pieces have come from extremely small trees.
A quick once over of HD seemed to show the better stuff is being used for 12 foot and longer boards. The 2x6s I just used to build my 180 stand also seemed the same as I always got here. I told my wife I would hate to have a house framed with the stuff the 2x4 are made of.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I guess that is what I am saying. The 2x4x8s I have been getting recently don't match what I have used in the past closely enough to trust my experience. they do not hold fasteners as well, split way more easily and warp a great deal more. As for knots is is obvious that some pieces have come from extremely small trees.
A quick once over of HD seemed to show the better stuff is being used for 12 foot and longer boards. The 2x6s I just used to build my 180 stand also seemed the same as I always got here. I told my wife I would hate to have a house framed with the stuff the 2x4 are made of.

I can't say that I have experienced that change in quality, personally. I'm primarily a furniture builder, So using hardwood 90% of the time.

I've put together four or five projects in the last 6 months using KD construction grade lumber from Home Depot. I am much more selective at Home Depot, Then I am when purchasing hardwoods, rough sawn.


About 2 years ago now, One of the largest milling operations in Canada was all but shut down by COVID. Hundreds of thousands of trees that had been floated waiting to be milled to lumber, are still floating there.

Smaller commercial milling operations continued, But they don't have access to the same land for sourcing, don't use vacuum kilns. It would make sense that the lumber we are receiving now, could be this in between stuff. Case hardening of fibers happens with too long or intense heat while drying. It has the tendency to leave the wood with that more hollow punky feeling that you were describing.

 

[WVNed]

I can't say that I have experienced that change in quality, personally. I'm primarily a furniture builder, So using hardwood 90% of the time.

I've put together four or five projects in the last 6 months using KD construction grade lumber from Home Depot. I am much more selective at Home Depot, Then I am when purchasing hardwoods, rough sawn.


About 2 years ago now, One of the largest milling operations in Canada was all but shut down by COVID. Hundreds of thousands of trees that had been floated waiting to be milled to lumber, are still floating there.

Smaller commercial milling operations continued, But they don't have access to the same land for sourcing, don't use vacuum kilns. It would make sense that the lumber we are receiving now, could be this in between stuff. Case hardening of fibers happens with too long or intense heat while drying. It has the tendency to leave the wood with that more hollow punky feeling that you were describing.

Over the last few months I have built stands for a 55, 29, 40 breeder and 180. Only the lumber I have purchased in the last 2 months seems to be this inferior stuff. It is white colored, very light, straight grained and full of tiny knots over the entire length. I have some old 2x4s saved from some remodeling which I took out of our house. They weigh twice as much for the same length.
When in doubt I have simply used 2x6s on the 55 and 180.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Over the last few months I have built stands for a 55, 29, 40 breeder and 180. Only the lumber I have purchased in the last 2 months seems to be this inferior stuff. It is white colored, very light, straight grained and full of tiny knots over the entire length. I have some old 2x4s saved from some remodeling which I took out of our house. They weigh twice as much for the same length.
When in doubt I have simply used 2x6s on the 55 and 180.

Interesting. Bleached out coloration of SYP is often associated with overheating and case hardening as well.

The old stuff is, like live rock, the best. Earlier this month in the Midwest, I helped my brother and open up the side of his barn. Post and beam construction. It was built with Walnut 9x9 Posts likely from his property!!!! Also 2"x4" actual dimension straight redwood.

What I wouldn't give to go back to the lumber of 100 years ago.

 

[bh750]

Wow. This is crazy. Totally makes sense tho. And you guys really know your stuff! So fortunate to have this resource!

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Wow. This is crazy. Totally makes sense tho. And you guys really know your stuff! So fortunate to have this resource!

That's what this place is about. You've got infinite homies.

Surprisingly on topic picture.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Wow. This is crazy. Totally makes sense tho. And you guys really know your stuff! So fortunate to have this resource!

I have not priced anything so don't know if it's feasible, but I know 2 strips of 3/4 inch plywood glued together is stronger than a 2x4 vertically. Is it also stronger horizontally?

 

[Beau_B]

EDIT removed to avoid debate.

To the OP: the 2x4 is suitable for your application. A 2x6 will only add weight.

Personally I would do a plywood ring frame stand, but that takes some extra tooling.

 

[DavidinGA]

A single 2x4 can vertically support 1,000 lbs before it fails.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

A single 2x4 can vertically support 1,000 lbs before it fails.

Yea but we are talking about horizontal

 

[((FORDTECH))]

A single 2x4 can vertically support 1,000 lbs before it fails.

Of which the longer the span the less it is

 

[DavidinGA]

Yea but we are talking about horizontal

Yes, but the stand is built using vertical 2x4s on the corners and the weight of a tank rests on the corners...

The size of the horizontal boards are of less importance given the displacement of weight that falls primarily on the corners.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Yes, but the stand is built using vertical 2x4s on the corners and the weight of a tank rests on the corners...

The size of the horizontal boards are of less importance given the displacement of weight that falls primarily on the corners.

I don't think anybody's worried about it crushing the 2x4 vertically. Sag horizontally which would make the tank not level and affect structural integrity would be the major concern here.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I have not priced anything so don't know if it's feasible, but I know 2 strips of 3/4 inch plywood glued together is stronger than a 2x4 vertically. Is it also stronger horizontally?

Having just built a full 40 breeder top and 20L bottom quarantine stands out of 3/4-in plywood, is way way more expensive than construction grade lumber at this point.

I still prefer Cabinet Grade ply stands for anything 50lb and down.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Having just built a full 40 breeder top and 20L bottom quarantine stands out of 3/4-in plywood, is way way more expensive than construction grade lumber at this point.

I still prefer Cabinet Grade ply stands for anything 50lb and down.

Thanks for the reply

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Yes, but the stand is built using vertical 2x4s on the corners and the weight of a tank rests on the corners...

The size of the horizontal boards are of less importance given the displacement of weight that falls primarily on the corners.

I don't think this is accurate.

 

[snorklr]

if you ever looked at an old angle iron stand fo a 55 gal? the steel would bow down in the center till there was a 1/4 inch gap between it and the tank base...sure the weight of the tank was supported by the 4 corners but it basically made the front and rear tank glass into stressed structural members...with nothing supporting the bottom but the silicone seal...which really isnt a good thing...and is basically the reason for the RedSea tank failures

 

[snorklr]

and yes the curent state of available lumber is pathetic...at least it was last summer...trying to find a straight 2x4 is a joke as current practices are cutting them out of fast growing softwood with very small diameter trunks....larger boards have to be cut from larger diameter logs that are a lot more stable with less internal stresses...at this point if i needed to build something accurately out of 2x4's i'd probably buy 2x12's and rip them down myself...HD had some 2x4's last summer that were Ruru brand...made in Austria of all places...and these were actually straight....possibly slower growth from colder climate as opposed to the usual southern pine normally available here....otherwise Lowes, HD's regular stuff and local lumber yard were all corkscrews and 12 bucks a board