How should I go about treating him?

SeaDøøby · Feb 27, 2022

I added a regal angel into my 20 gallon qt yesterday. He is settled in and breathing good.

Are you able to diagnose what he has so I can treat him properly? He has white dots around his body and fins. He also has two almost bite like marks on his body. Thank you!

Diveks · Feb 27, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
I added a regal angel into my 20 gallon qt yesterday. He is settled in and breathing good.

Are you able to diagnose what he has so I can treat him properly? He has white dots around his body and fins. He also has two almost bite like marks on his body. Thank you!

is that a dot on it's head? i'm guessing the scars on the body might be scars from scrapes or something bacterial. not sure, im not the best at diagnosing from pics. mine came in with ich and after copper developed lympho last week of qt. after he went in the DT the lympho went away. goodluck with yours!

SeaDøøby · Feb 27, 2022

Yes there is a white little dot on his head. I was thinking of going cupramime but just want to make sure exactly what I’m treating. Were you able to get your regal to eat in qt and if so what did you feed it? Thank you!

Sharkbait19 · Feb 27, 2022

Kinda sounds like HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) based in placement of the scars.
White spots could be lympho, a viral infection often brought on by stress.
@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Diveks · Feb 27, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
Yes there is a white little dot on his head. I was thinking of going cupramime but just want to make sure exactly what I’m treating. Were you able to get your regal to eat in qt and if so what did you feed it? Thank you!

Yes i did and it was a grey chested one like yours. Might have gotten lucky though, was yours eating before you got em? I fed mine a frozen mix so it wouldn't foul the water too much. He was really shy on eating and i never saw him eat but the food was dissapearing. After introduction to the DT though he refused to eat all types of frozen and went crazy for pellets, will also pick at the nori sheets i feed the tangs and moorish. I would try asking the seller/lfs what he was eating before or to experiment a bit. They are known to be picky though thats why I made sure mine was eating before I got him.

I'm not really sure about the best course of treatment for yours though as im not the best at identifying these things from pics, to me some of them look simillar on cam.

SeaDøøby · Feb 27, 2022

Mine was not eating when I got it. I’m hoping I can get him eating. I was thinking of trying frozen mysis, brine, etc. and nori sheets and clam on a half shell. The lfs tried brine and mysis. He would just get close to it and stare. They had him for a week and it never ate.

For the disease diagnosis if you need any more pictures please let me know

Diveks · Feb 27, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
Mine was not eating when I got it. I’m hoping I can get him eating. I was thinking of trying frozen mysis, brine, etc. and nori sheets and clam on a half shell. The lfs tried brine and mysis. He would just get close to it and stare. They had him for a week and it never ate.

For the disease diagnosis if you need any more pictures please let me know

Oh i would get him eating asap cause if he was not eating for the week he was in the lfs then he was probably not eating for even longer when in transit from the ocean all the way to the lfs.

I would try different types of pellets, frozen food, or even nori. Frozen foods like shrimp, mysis, brine, squid, and since they like picking at things giving them an opened clam and/or mussel could help. also you could try inticing it to eat with garlic, fish vitamins, or angelelixir. When i have picky fish coming in i usually prepare several different food types and food soaks to get it to eat. you could even try live foods.

Jay Hemdal · Feb 27, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
Mine was not eating when I got it. I’m hoping I can get him eating. I was thinking of trying frozen mysis, brine, etc. and nori sheets and clam on a half shell. The lfs tried brine and mysis. He would just get close to it and stare. They had him for a week and it never ate.

For the disease diagnosis if you need any more pictures please let me know

Some of those spots do look like Lymphocystis and this species of angel is really prone to that. Trouble is, this fish could have multiple issues. You should treat as a preventative.

Getting these to feed in a QT is a real trick though. Try live clams/mussels on the half shell. A pretty high percentage never feed though. I see you list your location as the "Pacific Ocean". Do you know if this fish went through a different supply chain than the ones in the US do?

Jay

SeaDøøby · Feb 27, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Do you know if this fish went through a different supply chain than the ones in the US do?

Jay

I’m not exactly sure but I can easily ask my lfs today. I live in US, CA if that may help.

Jay Hemdal · Feb 27, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
I’m not exactly sure but I can easily ask my lfs today. I live in US, CA if that may help.

Oh, sorry, your supply chain would be the same then. When I saw “Pacific” I was thinking foreign, we have a lot of members from overseas.

Jay

SeaDøøby · Feb 27, 2022

BINGO! I got him to eat flake food. He only ate like 3 but that’s a good start! Maybe I’ll add some garlic extract and get higher quality flakes. Thank you Diveks for advice on what to feed him. Flake food would have been the last thing I thought of.

Diveks · Feb 27, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
BINGO! I got him to eat flake food. He only ate like 3 but that’s a good start! Maybe I’ll add some garlic extract and get higher quality flakes. Thank you Diveks for advice on what to feed him. Flake food would have been the last thing I thought of.

Thats great! Almost forgot about flakes i also had an angel that started off with flakes. I don’t love flakes for medicated feed (which im not sure if you are looking yo do in qt) though as they will become mush but its really good that you got him eating!

SeaDøøby · Feb 28, 2022

Right now I got him in .15ppm of Cupramine Copper. Planning to slowly raise it to .5. Also how often should I do water changes on the tank? Daily, every other day?

Diveks · Feb 28, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
Right now I got him in .15ppm of Cupramine Copper. Planning to slowly raise it to .5. Also how often should I do water changes on the tank? Daily, every other day?

for me it depends (cycled or uncycled), usually i have an ammonia badge to monitor it. Sometimes i can even go with no water change the whole copper treatment, although i was using a 100 gallon to qt. I heard that the normal ammonia tests don't work in copper though.

SeaDøøby · Feb 28, 2022

It wasn’t properly cycled but I threw in some bio balls and a bio block in their to “instant cycle” it. I’ll get an ammonia badge and see how it is. I did a water change before adding copper so hopefully all good for now. Would regals be considered copper sensitive?

Jay Hemdal · Feb 28, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
Right now I got him in .15ppm of Cupramine Copper. Planning to slowly raise it to .5. Also how often should I do water changes on the tank? Daily, every other day?

Slowly raising copper is always a mistake. It is one of those ideas that got over-extrapolated. Back in the day of using copper/citric acid, we would take 48 hours to get to a full dose. That then got carried over (for no real reason) to amine-based coppers. Then, the 48 hours got lengthened to 5 or more days. What happens is often this: a person takes 5 days to slowly raise the copper. On day four the fish starts breathing fast and dies. They then attribute it to copper toxicity. Actually, the fish died from an uncontrolled protozoan infection....

Accurately measuring copper is the big issue. I tell folks to add the copper in two to three doses, over 24 to 48 hours, with testing in between, not because it needs to be added slowly, but just so they don't overshoot the dose, and they sort of edge up to it.

In regards to water changes - if you aren't having ammonia issues, you shouldn't have to do water changes.

Remember never to add a reducing agent (formalin, ammonia remover, etc.) to a tank with Cupramine in it.

Jay

SeaDøøby · Feb 28, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
Slowly raising copper is always a mistake. It is one of those ideas that got over-extrapolated. Back in the day of using copper/citric acid, we would take 48 hours to get to a full dose. That then got carried over (for no real reason) to amine-based coppers. Then, the 48 hours got lengthened to 5 or more days. What happens is often this: a person takes 5 days to slowly raise the copper. On day four the fish starts breathing fast and dies. They then attribute it to copper toxicity. Actually, the fish died from an uncontrolled protozoan infection....

Accurately measuring copper is the big issue. I tell folks to add the copper in two to three doses, over 24 to 48 hours, with testing in between, not because it needs to be added slowly, but just so they don't overshoot the dose, and they sort of edge up to it.

In regards to water changes - if you aren't having ammonia issues, you shouldn't have to do water changes.

Remember never to add a reducing agent (formalin, ammonia remover, etc.) to a tank with Cupramine in it.

Jay

Thank you Jay, I will finish the dosage to .5ppm now. I was looking at the old thread of how to add copper. Thank you again

SeaDøøby · Mar 1, 2022

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His breathing looks like it has sped up a bit. I’m not sure if I’m being paranoid or not. His breathing is usually normal for the first minute when I check on him but speeds up. I think I just scare him, not sure.

Jay Hemdal · Mar 1, 2022

JumpingFlea said:
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His breathing looks like it has sped up a bit. I’m not sure if I’m being paranoid or not. His breathing is usually normal for the first minute when I check on him but speeds up. I think I just scare him, not sure.

I'm seeing some other issues as well. Do you know what caused the fin damage on its pectoral fins? It looks like those are infected. What looked like Lymphocystis to me at first looks worse now, and I'm less sure of that diagnosis. The fish is breathing a bit deeply, but not really rapid like with velvet.

What if the fish has flukes? Copper won't be effective against those. Praziquantel works for those.

Jay

SeaDøøby · Mar 1, 2022

Sorry about the late response. I looked back at some pictures of him from Saturday and noticed he did not have damaged pectoral fins, but he did have bite looking marks on his tail / back fin. And I was going to say that he has gotten a little worse. The white had spread a bit more and his fins were looking like he was being attacked by fish. Would a freshwater dip help him out if it is flukes? Do you need any pictures to determine if it is flukes. He is still eating flakes and very small pellets though. Also his bottom fins twitch sometimes if that is something to note on. Lastly how would I remove the copper if it is flukes?