How to plumb a return into a sump that doesn't cause splashing?

[kdx7214]

I have a sump I'm wanting to drain a side tank into, but I don't want splashing causing salt creep around the sump. Is there a way to plumb a return into a sump that prevents the splashing?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

If you want to use a sock, then try a Eshopps cliffhanger or make your own similar. but if you are not going to filter it, than put the return just below the water line of the sump.

 

[kdx7214]

If you want to use a sock, then try a Eshopps cliffhanger or make your own similar. but if you are not going to filter it, than put the return just below the water line of the sump.

After all the problems I've had with Eshopps products I won't ever buy anything of theirs again. That being said, I plumbed my current overflow from the DT to the sump with the pipes below the water line and I get a large amount of bubbles that throw salt creep everywhere, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

After all the problems I've had with Eshopps products I won't ever buy anything of theirs again. That being said, I plumbed my current overflow from the DT to the sump with the pipes below the water line and I get a large amount of bubbles that throw salt creep everywhere, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

So a couple of questions, So I assume you have a Herbie or a Bean, 2 or 3 drains from your overflow? One being a full siphon and the other/s being a emergency drain. Do you have a valve on the full siphon drain and is it adjusted so that, at full siphon, the water skims just over the top of the first emergency drain at a trickle? On the emergency drain it should be just below the surface of the sump water level maybe a 1/2- 1 inch?

 

[kdx7214]

So a couple of questions, So I assume you have a Herbie or a Bean, 2 or 3 drains from your overflow? One being a full siphon and the other/s being a emergency drain. Do you have a valve on the full siphon drain and is it adjusted so that, at full siphon, the water skims just over the top of the first emergency drain at a trickle? On the emergency drain it should be just below the surface of the sump water level maybe a 1/2- 1 inch?

I had an Eshopps Eclipse (the large one) on my DT. The dang thing never worked right, and in the end, I used the two 1.5" holes in the tank to just plumb some pvc down to the sump. It works well, but I had to rig some filter socks on the ends to keep the splashing down. So yeah, no herbie, nothing like that.

What I'm working on is a secondary 20g tank that is being connected into the system. I say connected, but really it's a completely separate system that just happens to take/return water to/from the sump. I've got a 600gph Hygger DC pump that will remove water from the sump, and then some pvc to return it. The tank will be used for both a refugium, and a place to culture phyto. So I need a way to run pvc from that tank back to the sump without putting a sock on it (don't want to waste the phyto) and don't want splashing.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I would suggest a reverse durso for your main sump. Here's a diagram and note the elbow could also be a street elbow to tighten it up a bit.

Here is an example with a street elbow.

 

[kdx7214]

I would suggest a reverse durso for your main sump. Here's a diagram and note the elbow could also be a street elbow to tighten it up a bit.

Here is an example with a street elbow.

Yeah, I know what that is, but it is the wrong end of the system. I need the part that dumps water INTO the sump. I've got the overflow working fine.

 

[Pkunk35]

I’ve always used bubble trap sponges for this kind of thing. You may still get some fizzle pop but no large bubbles. Downside is that you will have to check em every so often. Upside is it’s cheap!

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

After all the problems I've had with Eshopps products I won't ever buy anything of theirs again. That being said, I plumbed my current overflow from the DT to the sump with the pipes below the water line and I get a large amount of bubbles that throw salt creep everywhere, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

If you're getting any bubbles from your lines after 2-3 minutes, there is a problem with the plumbing. How far into the water do the lines go? What type of return?

 

[Stang67]

i think what may help is something no one wants to do reducing the flow rate into the sump. no one recommends valves on the drains for obvious reasons. You may want to consider possibly reducing the diameter of the pipe so it slows the flow a bit into the sump? how deep do your drain pipes go past the water level in the sump? i think the deeper into the sump they are the more they will bubble up and "they" recommend only a couple inches below the water line. i may be wrong tho so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[kdx7214]

If you're getting any bubbles from your lines after 2-3 minutes, there is a problem with the plumbing. How far into the water do the lines go? What type of return?

They're about 3-4" below the surface. I've got filter socks on them right now and that works great. I just need to get something figured out for the 20. I've attached a diagram of how I did the current setup, but I want something better for the 20 that won't involve filter socks or sponges that might filter out the phyto.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

They're about 3-4" below the surface. I've got filter socks on them right now and that works great. I just need to get something figured out for the 20. I've attached a diagram of how I did the current setup, but I want something better for the 20 that won't involve filter socks or sponges that might filter out the phyto.

With no valve on the line, you're probably not getting/maintaining a clean siphon. Without that, you'll have constant turbulence in your lines and bubbles coming out below.

 

[Stang67]

ps dont listen to me listen to lost he knows way more about this i was just tryin to help.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I had an Eshopps Eclipse (the large one) on my DT. The dang thing never worked right, and in the end, I used the two 1.5" holes in the tank to just plumb some pvc down to the sump. It works well, but I had to rig some filter socks on the ends to keep the splashing down. So yeah, no herbie, nothing like that.

What I'm working on is a secondary 20g tank that is being connected into the system. I say connected, but really it's a completely separate system that just happens to take/return water to/from the sump. I've got a 600gph Hygger DC pump that will remove water from the sump, and then some pvc to return it. The tank will be used for both a refugium, and a place to culture phyto. So I need a way to run pvc from that tank back to the sump without putting a sock on it (don't want to waste the phyto) and don't want splashing.

I am understanding now what you want to do. How are getting water out of your 20g? is there a overflow or is there just a hole drilled with a bulkhead? Can you do a diagram of the plumbing in the 20?

 

[kdx7214]

I am understanding now what you want to do. How are getting water out of your 20g? is there a overflow or is there just a hole drilled with a bulkhead? Can you do a diagram of the plumbing in the 20?

It's a gravity feed. Basically I drilled the tank on the bottom, put a bulkhead, and have a standpipe at the proper height. Given the head pressure I'm expecting ~250 gph flow

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Ok, now I have the picture in my mind. I would do the "reverse Durso" on your standpipe that @redfishbluefish mentioned with a gate valve into your sump. You could use ball valve, but it's harder to tune. Adjust the valve so you get a full siphon, with the water level higher than your stand pipe. I am pretty sure that would eliminate a good portion of your bubbles.

 

[kdx7214]

I would suggest a reverse durso for your main sump. Here's a diagram and note the elbow could also be a street elbow to tighten it up a bit.

Here is an example with a street elbow.

Hmm, wouldn't drilling a hole in the downpipe do the same thing without the T and all that? Just not sure why one would use that sort of configuration?

 

[Kodski]

Hmm, wouldn't drilling a hole in the downpipe do the same thing without the T and all that? Just not sure why one would use that sort of configuration?

No it would not be the same thing. Essentially, the whole point of a Herbie drain is to have separate intake points for water and air to prevent the two from fighting each other. The simplest example of this I can give is when you pour water out of a jug. If you tip it too far, the water "glugs" as the air fights to replace the water. If you tip the jug just right, the water escapes smoothly while the air passes by without impeding. This idea is applied a bit differently in terms to an overflow, but the idea being, a smooth mixture of air and water is going to help prevent excess air from getting pulled down into the sump and causing bubbles and splashes. That is why everyone here went straight to you having an issue with your plumbing, properly plumbed and tuned overflows have a smooth and steady stream of water coming out of them causing minimal splashing and bubbles.

 

[kdx7214]

No it would not be the same thing. Essentially, the whole point of a Herbie drain is to have separate intake points for water and air to prevent the two from fighting each other. The simplest example of this I can give is when you pour water out of a jug. If you tip it too far, the water "glugs" as the air fights to replace the water. If you tip the jug just right, the water escapes smoothly while the air passes by without impeding. This idea is applied a bit differently in terms to an overflow, but the idea being, a smooth mixture of air and water is going to help prevent excess air from getting pulled down into the sump and causing bubbles and splashes. That is why everyone here went straight to you having an issue with your plumbing, properly plumbed and tuned overflows have a smooth and steady stream of water coming out of them causing minimal splashing and bubbles.

Okay, I have tried the reverse Herbie. Numerous times now. I've tried every adjustment I can think of to no avail. I've attached a hand drawn pic of the current layout. I've tried adjusting pipe sizes (3/4" vs 1"), adjusting the height of the T above/below the water level, and yet I'm still getting millions of tiny bubbles in the tank. I have tried completely removing the end cap with the hole drilled to allow more room for air flow.

Are you saying that I need to use a durso on the 20g instead of the reverse herbie on the destination?

 

[Rtaylor]

You need gate valves or ball valves to control the flow rate. Am I missing something?