How to plumb a return into a sump that doesn't cause splashing?

[kdx7214]

You need gate valves or ball valves to control the flow rate. Am I missing something?

I'm just trying to get rid of the bubbles into the sump. That diagram I uploaded is exactly what is in the system right now, but it's pushing a ton of tiny air bubbles into the display tank. I was told that a reverse Herbie (like in the diagram) would fix it, but it didn't change anything at all. I'm sort of lost on this.

 

[Rtaylor]

I'm just trying to get rid of the bubbles into the sump. That diagram I uploaded is exactly what is in the system right now, but it's pushing a ton of tiny air bubbles into the display tank. I was told that a reverse Herbie (like in the diagram) would fix it, but it didn't change anything at all. I'm sort of lost on this.

Add a ball valve and reduce the flow rate

 

[caddnima_reef]

I would suggest a reverse durso for your main sump. Here's a diagram and note the elbow could also be a street elbow to tighten it up a bit.

Here is an example with a street elbow.

This is correct.... Back in the days, we call it the J pipe... This works wonderfully

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Okay, I have tried the reverse Herbie. Numerous times now. I've tried every adjustment I can think of to no avail. I've attached a hand drawn pic of the current layout. I've tried adjusting pipe sizes (3/4" vs 1"), adjusting the height of the T above/below the water level, and yet I'm still getting millions of tiny bubbles in the tank. I have tried completely removing the end cap with the hole drilled to allow more room for air flow.

Are you saying that I need to use a durso on the 20g instead of the reverse herbie on the destination?

yes, on the 20g ,right now as you have it, I think you are sucking air in. think of a power head with its airline attachment thats what you are doing now.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Okay, I have tried the reverse Herbie. Numerous times now. I've tried every adjustment I can think of to no avail. I've attached a hand drawn pic of the current layout. I've tried adjusting pipe sizes (3/4" vs 1"), adjusting the height of the T above/below the water level, and yet I'm still getting millions of tiny bubbles in the tank. I have tried completely removing the end cap with the hole drilled to allow more room for air flow.

Are you saying that I need to use a durso on the 20g instead of the reverse herbie on the destination?

You're close....a slight modification to your drawing:

What happens is that the air entrapped turbulent water comes down the pipe and hits the tee. The air bubbles pop and go up while the water goes down. If air still come out the bottom of the pipe, increase the length of that pipe. An end cap with a hole in it at the top of the "air escape" will quite it down a bit.

 

[kdx7214]

You're close....a slight modification to your drawing:

What happens is that the air entrapped turbulent water comes down the pipe and hits the tee. The air bubbles pop and go up while the water goes down. If air still come out the bottom of the pipe, increase the length of that pipe. An end cap with a hole in it at the top of the "air escape" will quite it down a bit.

This is exactly what I tried. I had the air bubble pipe 14" in length and still had water spurting out the top (even with no cap on it at all). I've even increased the size of the reverse herbie to 1" pipe to no effect.

 

[kdx7214]

yes, on the 20g ,right now as you have it, I think you are sucking air in. think of a power head with its airline attachment thats what you are doing now.

Latest update: Built a durso standpipe and installed it and can tell zero difference. I also put the reverse herbie on the return and while there are slightly less bubbles, it's still problematic. I've attached pics in case you can spot what's wrong.

 

[Murica]

I put the return (pretty much) all the way to the bottom of the sump, drilled holes in the bottom 10 or so inches so the velocity reduced. I later put the bottom of the return in a 5 gallon bucket which contained the micro bubbles.

if you’d like to see it i can take a picture later

 

[kdx7214]

I put the return (pretty much) all the way to the bottom of the sump, drilled holes in the bottom 10 or so inches so the velocity reduced. I later put the bottom of the return in a 5 gallon bucket which contained the micro bubbles.

if you’d like to see it i can take a picture later

That would be great! Right now I have a ton of micro bubbles in the DT

 

[Wolfw28]

Put your return a few inches above your water line, use a 90 and then make a spray bar. Then under it uses the bubble trap sponges under it. i built a box with egg create and bubble trap sponges for my refugium to one prevent bubbles as the water drained in and to eliminate salt creep and slt getting on my fan. work perfectly Check out attached pic.

.

 

[kdx7214]

Put your return a few inches above your water line, use a 90 and then make a spray bar. Then under it uses the bubble trap sponges under it. i built a box with egg create and bubble trap sponges for my refugium to one prevent bubbles as the water drained in and to eliminate salt creep and slt getting on my fan. work perfectly Check out attached pic.

.

Dang. I just realized I can't use sponges. This tank is for culturing phyto and a sponge would filter them out

 

[kdx7214]

Okay, this is weird. If I cover the hole on the durso standpipe it removes 99.9% of the bubbles from the outlet. At least for a while, then it loses suction and it starts getting bubbles again.

 

[Murica]

That would be great! Right now I have a ton of micro bubbles in the DT

 

[Wolfw28]

Okay, this is weird. If I cover the hole on the durso standpipe it removes 99.9% of the bubbles from the outlet.

that because it designed to reduce noise and help with flow not air. Its creating a vacuum and suction air in. The reason i use the setup i posted is because i want the air exchange to help aerate the water to help with oxygen and co2 exchange without the bubbles, splashing, and salt creep. Not sponge to filter matt i get it from amazon all LFS should have it.

 

[Wolfw28]

that because it designed to reduce noise and help with flow not air. Its creating a vacuum and suction air in. The reason i use the setup i posted is because i want the air exchange to help aerate the water to help with oxygen and co2 exchange without the bubbles, splashing, and salt creep. Not sponge to filter matt i get it from amazon all LFS should have it.

before i built what was in the pics i just had a longer drip pipe and within a weak my fan was so caked with salt that the fan blades were rubbing the salt that built up in the side and making noise. Now i have almost zero salt creep and added .2-3 to my PH.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Okay, this is weird. If I cover the hole on the durso standpipe it removes 99.9% of the bubbles from the outlet. At least for a while, then it loses suction and it starts getting bubbles again.

two ?'s
is the that other durso thing still in line in the sump? if it is it maybe sucking in air from there.
And two when I saw the hole you drilled in the top I thought it maybe too big... maybe put a piece of tape over the top and enlarge the hole slowly.
Also have you seen this? https://www.dursostandpipes.com/make-your-own-durso-standpipe
Not exactly what you’re doing, but does have some common principles.

 

[kdx7214]

two ?'s
is the that other durso thing still in line in the sump? if it is it maybe sucking in air from there.
And two when I saw the hole you drilled in the top I thought it maybe too big... maybe put a piece of tape over the top and enlarge the hole slowly.
Also have you seen this? https://www.dursostandpipes.com/make-your-own-durso-standpipe
Not exactly what you’re doing, but does have some common principles.

That's exactly what I based my standpipe on. The only difference I can see is that the stuff at the bottom is actually on the underside of the bulkhead - so I can't get a picture of it.

I tried both with and without the reverse herbie in the sump. Neither made any difference at all. I will try the tape - I only had one drill bit, so I used that one. No clue what size it is. Also going to try something different in the sump. Found something on reef central that probably won't work, but I have all the stuff on hand to try it. It uses a 45 off the main vertical line, then to two T's, each with their own vertical column. Then to another 45 into the sump.

 

[kdx7214]

two ?'s
is the that other durso thing still in line in the sump? if it is it maybe sucking in air from there.
And two when I saw the hole you drilled in the top I thought it maybe too big... maybe put a piece of tape over the top and enlarge the hole slowly.
Also have you seen this? https://www.dursostandpipes.com/make-your-own-durso-standpipe
Not exactly what you’re doing, but does have some common principles.

I just used the tape and tried various sizes of holes, none of which made anything better. If it's totally sealed it works great until it eventually starts a siphon, then it starts over again. Going to try something weird now and see if that helps.

 

[kdx7214]

Okay, I give up. I don't believe there's any way to get water from a tank into a sump without bubbles - at least not without a filter sock or something. None of the things I've seen even come close to working. I went out and bought the parts for a ball valve and put that in place. If I turn it down so it's almost off there are very few bubbles and the DT stays clear.

 

[Wolfw28]

Dang. I just realized I can't use sponges. This tank is for culturing phyto and a sponge would filter them out

not sponge

Dang. I just realized I can't use sponges. This tank is for culturing phyto and a sponge would filter them out

Dang. I just realized I can't use sponges. This tank is for culturing phyto and a sponge would filter them out

Use the small number ppi I used 30 in my setup you may want to go with 20 or smaller. Curious what exactly you are doing I grow phyto and pods are you trying to do a all in you system please elaborate on your set up