How to Quarantine
- Thread starter Humblefish
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Brew12
Electrical Gru
I'm trying to get confirmation on this. I believe the 0.2ppm is what Mardel recommends for those who want to maintain a constant copper level in their display tanks. Yes.. some non reefers do run copper in their systems 100% of the time.
The 2.0ppm level would be for using it to treat ich infected fish for a shorter period of time. Will post if/when Mardel gets back to me on this.
VJV
Valuable Member
Why are manufacturers so ambiguous and misguiding on recommendations that can kill your fish?!?!?!? Cupramine from Seachem went from 16 drops per 10,5 gallons (to reach 0,25). A couple of years later they switched to 20 drops (!!!!) because in theory they realized that 20, and not 16, equate to 1ml...! What...!?!? That is a 25% mistake!!!! So instead of 0,5 people were dosing 0,375...???
And also up until last year they said that cupramine was effective on Velvet from 0,15-0,25 and on ich from 0,25-0,35. This was on their web page. All of a sudden they changed everything and now they state that 0,5 is THE prophylactic concentration...!!!????
And why on earth would Fritz recommend a dosage for permanent use??!?!? I know that some fish only tanks do it for algae control but why not advertise it for that purpose than? Why state that this is meant to treat ich and velvet and than put a dosage alt hat would not even make the parasite giggle???!?
This shows clear disrespect for the hobby, the hobbyists and worse, the livestock that we keep. Than people wonder why this industry is an escape goat and not taken seriously! I mean, not even the key players take their own industry seriously!
Sorry about the rant but I am [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35] right now!
And also up until last year they said that cupramine was effective on Velvet from 0,15-0,25 and on ich from 0,25-0,35. This was on their web page. All of a sudden they changed everything and now they state that 0,5 is THE prophylactic concentration...!!!????
And why on earth would Fritz recommend a dosage for permanent use??!?!? I know that some fish only tanks do it for algae control but why not advertise it for that purpose than? Why state that this is meant to treat ich and velvet and than put a dosage alt hat would not even make the parasite giggle???!?
This shows clear disrespect for the hobby, the hobbyists and worse, the livestock that we keep. Than people wonder why this industry is an escape goat and not taken seriously! I mean, not even the key players take their own industry seriously!
Sorry about the rant but I am [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35] right now!
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Don't apologize, I think you are dead on.
It's hard to believe that there is so little good research done in this industry despite the amount of money most of it costs. I've spent 2 months just trying to find good information on how to set up a skimmer. I'm convinced it doesn't exist. How can there be so many skimmer manufacturers and yet none of them give anything close to a solid explanation on how to best set up their equipment???? :mad: Sorry.. now you are getting me worked up.
That is probably why sites like this can draw 1 million+ views every month. Learning from other reefers is still the most effective way to get good information. It still amazes me that the reefers from the early days were able to succeed, like PaulB. Then again, this is the internet and it is also full of bad information so at least they didn't have to deal with that. Like the reefer who put a 4 part series on why grounding probes are bad on salt water tanks and don't work on you tube. Yet all the testing he did was done in fresh water! :mad: I can't help but wonder how many thousands of people don't use a grounding probe in their marine tanks because of his horrible information! :mad::mad::mad: There you go.. .got me worked up again.
Ok.. I'm going to go for a walk now and calm down. It amazes me that the experts on this forum can put up with bad information from vendors, misinformation from other posters, and yet still have the patience to help those willing to listen. Hats off to them!
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VJV
Valuable Member
Agree! Mely and Humblefish, to name just two, dedicate their time and effort to do what the manufacturers won't. At their own time and expense. Kudos to them. You learn more in one post than all of Seachem's FAQ pages!
Is Paraguard effective? It's supposed to take care of parasitic, fungal, bacterial, and viral issues without the copper and diminish in 24 hours.
I want to get a Madarin next year and planning to do the TTM since they are sensitive to copper. During this treatment, I was planning to use Paraguard (dose daily) with Prazipro. Or will this stress the fish out too much?
I want to get a Madarin next year and planning to do the TTM since they are sensitive to copper. During this treatment, I was planning to use Paraguard (dose daily) with Prazipro. Or will this stress the fish out too much?
VJV
Valuable Member
Not sure why you would add paraguard to TTM + Prazi...? TTM will take care of ich and Prazi will take care of flukes. I would not mix them for sure. Would only use paraguard either as a bath when you first get the fish, or after the TTM and Prazi if you notice any type of bacterial infection or the likes.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Sorry I'm late to the convo. just got home from work. The correct therapeutic level is 2ppm to treat for ick and velvet. I believe you and @Brew12 have already discussed what the lower concentration would be for. You got good advice there.
I see no reason for paraguard. When I talked to the rep about it, even he couldn't explain or prove that it works. He simply said they used it on a display that has not shown signs of ick since then. That was his proof and explanation. TTM and Prazi would be efficient for what you want to do.
My concern with TTM is velvet and was wondering if using Paraguard would prevent this deadly parasite from taking out a fish during the treatment since TTM only meant to stop the life cycle of ich.
After using Paraguard for the first week after placing the tang in the QT, the tang seems healthier on the first day versus the 6th or 7th day. I guess there's no such a "cure-all" medicine. I knew it was too good to be true!
VJV
Valuable Member
Yes, I'm afraid Paraguard will not stop Velvet. I would do TTM plus Prazi and than observe for about one month. Being such an aggressive parasite odds are that if the fish is carrying it with all the stress of TTM it should manifest itself. Than again, there is always the risk of a fish being immune, butbstill carrying it. I do feel that it would be unlikely, though i am not an expert. Short story is, if you really want to be sure than you will need copper. If you donnot want to use copper (and i would understand that) than i guess extended observation would be your best bet.
I read several threads and many people would just take the risk with the dragonets since they have thick slime coats. I don't feel comfortable with that thought. I will probably just do the TTM with Prizipro and then observe for 2-3 weeks with 2-3 (or more) bags of copecods on hands to feed it every morning and night while monitor the ammonia level very closely.
I wish I didn't the Paraguard but it was so highly rated.
I wish I didn't the Paraguard but it was so highly rated.
Humblefish
Dr. Fish
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@TC3 TTM, combined with Prazipro, is the best way to QT a dragonet IMO. They also handle CP well (but NOT copper.)
For feeding in QT, try live blackworms, roe or baby brine shrimp. Read through this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mandarin-help.262166/
For feeding in QT, try live blackworms, roe or baby brine shrimp. Read through this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mandarin-help.262166/
VJV
Valuable Member
I read several threads and many people would just take the risk with the dragonets since they have thick slime coats. I don't feel comfortable with that thought. I will probably just do the TTM with Prizipro and then observe for 2-3 weeks with 2-3 (or more) bags of copecods on hands to feed it every morning and night while monitor the ammonia level very closely.
I wish I didn't the Paraguard but it was so highly rated.
Humblefish may correct me but the fact that they have a thick slime coat does not mean they cannot carry the parasite and would still contaminate your tank.
Humblefish
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Fish with thick slime coats (ex. Mandarin) are better protected from attacking parasites, but this does not mean it is impossible for a theront to get through.
Also remember that ALL fish are vulnerable inside their gills, where the mucous coat is reduced in composition.
At the end of the day it just comes down to how much risk are you willing to take?
Also remember that ALL fish are vulnerable inside their gills, where the mucous coat is reduced in composition.
At the end of the day it just comes down to how much risk are you willing to take?
VJV
Valuable Member
Humblefish, I have my yellow eye Kole at 0,5 copper for two weeks now. Last week I was going to move it to another QT to treat with Prazi but I noticed that it has a white "thing" in one of its pectoral fins. It is like a very large grain of salt, much larger than what ich looks like. I left it in copper for another week but the thing it is still in the exact same place. The Kole is very skittish so I can not take a picture to show. I do not believe it is ich given it is in the same place for two weeks, in full therapeauticall copper dose and it is much larger than what ich usually looks like.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
Humblefish
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@VJV Sounds like it could be Lymphocystis: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/
