How to successfully keep SPS Corals!

[saltyfilmfolks]

How do you do water changes when the salt mixes at a higher alk than your tank?

I use a pump.


Seriously, I'm at 8. IO is 11. I don't do more than 20% really. The difference in alkalinlity is generally not an issue. That's just a volume thing.
Some, match the alk.

 

[Jim C]

I use a pump.


Seriously, I'm at 8. IO is 11. I don't do more than 20% really. The difference in alkalinlity is generally not an issue. That's just a volume thing.
Some, match the alk.

Funny that's my alk and I use IO as well. Thanks!

 

[Ghxst]

Salty, Wouldn't a par of 300 in blues and led really be like 300 x 1.08 = 324? If so i just wanted to tell pdeihm

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Salty, Wouldn't a par of 300 in blues and led really be like 300 x 1.08 = 324? If so i just wanted to tell pdeihm

I'm afraid I don't follow.

300 par is 300 no matter what color.

Or Do you mean immersion correction.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

How do you do water changes when the salt mixes at a higher alk than your tank?

Very carefully... I did 1g weekly water changes in my 14g sps nano with red sea black bucket for a just over a month without killing anything. It mixes at around 11.5-12 alk. I have blue bucket now which should mix at 7.5, which is what I run in my tank.

 

[Scott.h]

How do you do water changes when the salt mixes at a higher alk than your tank?

Depending on how extreme the case you can dose hcl acid to match alk, and bubble it for a few hours prior to a water change. I used to. The smaller the water change the less significant.

 

[Ghxst]

I was reading an article you linked and there was a conversion factory for blue led, I'm thinking it was lumens now. So a blue led will get an accurate reading from a seneye for par?

 

[Scott.h]

I was reading an article you linked and there was a conversion factory for blue led, I'm thinking it was lumens now. So a blue led will get an accurate reading from a seneye for par?

The more towards the 400 nanometer mark the more chance of the seneye undershooting the par of an led. That said for common purposes ballpark is close enough.

 

[HolisticBear]

How do you do water changes when the salt mixes at a higher alk than your tank?

I switched to a salt, Red Sea Blue Bucket, that mixes to exactly my tank params. Makes my life simple.

 

[KJoFan]

I still wonder if elevated nutrient levels are the culprit for my brown or green/brown sps. I implemented about a 1/3 dose of gfo for the last month and find perhaps it's just more detrimental in the end. Seems like it's hard to avoid falling and rising P levels (lowers with gfo but climbs when gfo exhausts). I'm wondering if that's more harmful in the end than a relatively constant nutrient level, even if elevated. I'm seeing a little recession or thinning of flesh on a lps maze piece and had one small branch of my red dragon rtn which I fragged off and hasn't gone any further, but the red dragon overall looks...rough. Both pieces have shown decline since the gfo addition, but I can't say it's directly related.

So, I'm contemplating just keeping an eye on the major 3 (alk, ca, mg) and keeping them steady and waiting. GFO was turned off and NOPOX stopped a few days ago and I'm not testing N or P just because I probably don't want to know.

OR my lighting just isn't what or where it needs to be to bring out color. In which case, my other option is move majority of sps to newly established tank (just completed cycle in the last 10ish days) with "better" lighting for sps (MH w/Reefbrites). Likely, nutrients are slightly elevated there as well, but the skimmer is skimming well and chaeto is growing at great rates.

I did put a couple tester frags of sps in the new tank about 10 days ago and they're doing fine, but not necessarily a sudden overnight success, simply staying static.

Any words of advice?

 

[Scott.h]

I still wonder if elevated nutrient levels are the culprit for my brown or green/brown sps. I implemented about a 1/3 dose of gfo for the last month and find perhaps it's just more detrimental in the end. Seems like it's hard to avoid falling and rising P levels (lowers with gfo but climbs when gfo exhausts). I'm wondering if that's more harmful in the end than a relatively constant nutrient level, even if elevated. I'm seeing a little recession or thinning of flesh on a lps maze piece and had one small branch of my red dragon rtn which I fragged off and hasn't gone any further, but the red dragon overall looks...rough. Both pieces have shown decline since the gfo addition, but I can't say it's directly related.

So, I'm contemplating just keeping an eye on the major 3 (alk, ca, mg) and keeping them steady and waiting. GFO was turned off and NOPOX stopped a few days ago and I'm not testing N or P just because I probably don't want to know.

OR my lighting just isn't what or where it needs to be to bring out color. In which case, my other option is move majority of sps to newly established tank (just completed cycle in the last 10ish days) with "better" lighting for sps (MH w/Reefbrites). Likely, nutrients are slightly elevated there as well, but the skimmer is skimming well and chaeto is growing at great rates.

I did put a couple tester frags of sps in the new tank about 10 days ago and they're doing fine, but not necessarily a sudden overnight success, simply staying static.

Any words of advice?

I'd suspect if you moved them to the new tank that would finish them off. Even when doing everything right in a new tank its hard on the corals.

I really doubt lighting is the problem. When you say high nutrients, what are the numbers? Or what were they the last time you tested? Browning can equal high nutrients or lack of light too depending on the numbers.

 

[KJoFan]

I'd suspect if you moved them to the new tank that would finish them off. Even when doing everything right in a new tank its hard on the corals.

I really doubt lighting is the problem. When you say high nutrients, what are the numbers? Or what were they the last time you tested? Browning can equal high nutrients or lack of light too depending on the numbers.

Nitrates tend to be 5-10. When I started NOPOX they dipped to 0.5 so I backed off the dosage and they stayed steady around 2.5. Since I've quit they're back to 5-10. Seems like if I do a daily 1 mil dose of NOPOX they stay more in the 2.5 to 5 range which I'm ok with.

Phosphates sit at 0.1-0.2 w/out running gfo. With gfo they dropped to 0.04-0.05. Once gfo was exhausted I tested 0.13, I changed out gfo and they dropped back to 0.05-0.07. This is the one I don't like bouncing around as I feel it's stressing things further.

ETA: I stopped the 1 mil NOPOX as I see a small patch of cyano. A brown dusting of algae on the glass and some areas of sand has also increased over the past...7-10 days.

 

[EJReef]

I'm afraid I don't follow.

300 par is 300 no matter what color.

Or Do you mean immersion correction.

The PUR is higher if it is blue. More PAR might not lead to better results if the PUR is lower.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The PUR is higher if it is blue. More PAR might not lead to better results if the PUR is lower.

A 5600k mh will grow coral well and some say better than a 20k. This we'll be because I think is not the color temtpature but simply because the globe emits more PUR.

The original question was on par value. Par at 300 in blue only and 300 par in "white " was in reference to A number on a meter . Pur was not the question. I was quoting a question on The equasion that was appearanly on the immersion factor of a par meter.

 

[Scott.h]

Nitrates tend to be 5-10. When I started NOPOX they dipped to 0.5 so I backed off the dosage and they stayed steady around 2.5. Since I've quit they're back to 5-10. Seems like if I do a daily 1 mil dose of NOPOX they stay more in the 2.5 to 5 range which I'm ok with.

Phosphates sit at 0.1-0.2 w/out running gfo. With gfo they dropped to 0.04-0.05. Once gfo was exhausted I tested 0.13, I changed out gfo and they dropped back to 0.05-0.07. This is the one I don't like bouncing around as I feel it's stressing things further.

ETA: I stopped the 1 mil NOPOX as I see a small patch of cyano. A brown dusting of algae on the glass and some areas of sand has also increased over the past...7-10 days.

5-10 isn't terrible. I think maybe just a touch of nopox consistently would be ok. This is where using a small amount of gfo in a mesh bag verses a reactor would be good. A reactor is so efficient it would suck that po4 down fast, which you don't really want. Unfortunately it will take a fair amount of testing before you dial in that sweet spot. It sounds like you are close though. Just try to swing the water a little cleaner over the course of two weeks or so. Leave everything else the same for now. What's your alk?

 

[KJoFan]

5-10 isn't terrible. I think maybe just a touch of nopox consistently would be ok. This is where using a small amount of gfo in a mesh bag verses a reactor would be good. A reactor is so efficient it would suck that po4 down fast, which you don't really want. Unfortunately it will take a fair amount of testing before you dial in that sweet spot. It sounds like you are close though. Just try to swing the water a little cleaner over the course of two weeks or so. Leave everything else the same for now. What's your alk?

I agree. Nutrient levels aren't terrible, though I fear PO4 will or has climbed since turning off the gfo. I may pick up the 1 mil of nopox again, just seems to keep those nitrates in a more reasonable range. This is an IM40 tank, so maybe I can find a place to tuck a bag with a little gfo in it somewhere, I just don't like the yo-yo effect it seems to have when it's new vs exhausted. And I know the key is to replace before it's fully exhausted, but that can be easier said than done as well. The past few alk readings over the course of the last couple weeks have been at 8.4. Probably an OK level for the level of nutrients, but I'd probably want to bring that down 1 dKH if I can get nutrients down a little more.

I stopped all two part dosing as alk wasn't being used, still isn't as far as testing shows. However, where the small branch of Red Dragon (and the one I accidentally broke off at the same time) I fragged off were have both healed over so..not all is lost. SPS don't show great color and most don't show great PE, but most show some encrusting and some have shown overall growth over the past couple months.

Seems like new additions hold their color for a few weeks then slowly shift towards brown.

 

[EJReef]

5-10 isn't terrible. I think maybe just a touch of nopox consistently would be ok. This is where using a small amount of gfo in a mesh bag verses a reactor would be good. A reactor is so efficient it would suck that po4 down fast, which you don't really want. Unfortunately it will take a fair amount of testing before you dial in that sweet spot. It sounds like you are close though. Just try to swing the water a little cleaner over the course of two weeks or so. Leave everything else the same for now. What's your alk?

One of the nicest SPS tanks I've seen has 40 ppm nitrate.

 

[Scott.h]

I agree. Nutrient levels aren't terrible, though I fear PO4 will or has climbed since turning off the gfo. I may pick up the 1 mil of nopox again, just seems to keep those nitrates in a more reasonable range. This is an IM40 tank, so maybe I can find a place to tuck a bag with a little gfo in it somewhere, I just don't like the yo-yo effect it seems to have when it's new vs exhausted. And I know the key is to replace before it's fully exhausted, but that can be easier said than done as well. The past few alk readings over the course of the last couple weeks have been at 8.4. Probably an OK level for the level of nutrients, but I'd probably want to bring that down 1 dKH if I can get nutrients down a little more.

I stopped all two part dosing as alk wasn't being used, still isn't as far as testing shows. However, where the small branch of Red Dragon (and the one I accidentally broke off at the same time) I fragged off were have both healed over so..not all is lost. SPS don't show great color and most don't show great PE, but most show some encrusting and some have shown overall growth over the past couple months.

Seems like new additions hold their color for a few weeks then slowly shift towards brown.

5 N .035 P and 8.4 dkh would be a great range to keep steady. I'd probably aim for that and give it a month. If it's still browning then I'd look at par levels

One of the nicest SPS tanks I've seen has 40 ppm nitrate.

Yes but there is more to it. One of mine runs 38 but I don't have browning issues or algae. Maturity, stability, acclimation, the way the corals absorb nutrients, and light intensity play a roll too.

 

[KJoFan]

5 N .035 P and 8.4 dkh would be a great range to keep steady. I'd probably aim for that and give it a month. If it's still browning then I'd look at par levels

Yes but there is more to it. One of mine runs 38 but I don't have browning issues or algae. Maturity, stability, acclimation, the way the corals absorb nutrients, and light intensity play a roll too.

I always figure the issue is nutrients, but like mentioned some folks are running equal or higher levels of nutrients without issue. So, while I still would like to at least bring PO4 down some and keep it consistently down, I am wondering if light levels are just not quite right.

I don't have a par meter but have done some readings with a lux meter. I think I'm getting close to adequate light overall, but most sps are frags on a rack along the side, and probably are not receiving the light they need. I've been fearful to move/place them on the rockwork though until they seem a bit healthier, but perhaps I'll need to look toward that avenue next.

I also believe flow is adequate with 2xMP10's running on constant both at about 50%.

However, all that being said, clearly something is not optimal based on sps appearance. LPS and softies all are fine though, of course.

Ca has stayed around 400-410 consistently for awhile and Mg is always testing high at 1600 or better. Could high Mg be limiting color/growth?

I should test nsw to see how it's mixing, otherwise I don't know why Mg insists on staying high. Tested with a Red Sea kit.

 

[HolisticBear]

I should test nsw to see how it's mixing, otherwise I don't know why Mg insists on staying high. Tested with a Red Sea kit.

Some salts run 1600 Mg and the Red Sea Mg test has a bad reputation for reading high. Borrowing a buddy's or LFS's salifert kit would be nice data point.