How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

[meh180]

Hey Brandon,

You replied to my thread on my Nitrites not budging for a week. Been reading through this thread a bit.

So based on this, I should just do a water change and I'm good to add first livestock?

Adding some photos from testing.
(I know, it's been said they are inaccurate, but still)
Ammonia 0-0.2
Nitrite 1+
Nitrate 50

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

just as a quick reminder, how many days has your tank had this arrangement in it, and did you add liquid ammonia as feed, or any type of flake feed

thanks tons for posting

 

[meh180]

Dry Rock and water was added April 1st
Added Dr Tim's bacteria April 4th and dosed Dr Tim's liquid ammonia (4 drops per gal)

Added same amount of ammonia on April 6th.
Tank is a waterbox 35.2.

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

yes for sure 100% its ready. that really helps, to see those overall conditions and even that final ammonia run up top there. nice one.

if you did the full water change that's just slightly less algae fueled water but its not a big deal if you want to skip and move on right now as well, ammonia control will not be a problem there whatsoever. I estimate your specific start date for that tank was april 1st or 2nd

I know that seems flippant to say


but buried in these pages is Jon's seneye test of Dr Tims bottle bac, added right alongside ammonia, and it dropped in ten minutes.

the reason a non-digital tester takes 24-48 hours has to do with how they read and time it isn't necessarily a reflection on how fast mo nature does the conversion. that's minutes. the lag time in report is days, simple as that. that's the difference between seneye testing vs color compare kits. that you've waited this long, double past the dates on the directions was more than enough time. nice job being patient, a clean system, all set.

 

[tc3driver]

Just a quick update:

Note: I forgot to mention that the tank has been set up since ~1800 (PST) on April 11th 2021

Current What the graph currently looks like:

I did a 25% water change before adding the fish, and that took the ammonia down to .001, it has not budged since.

Current bio-load:
2 Orange Clown Fish (about 1.5 inches each) (added April 21 2001 ~2030 PST)
1 Small GSP frag (wanted the bacterial biodiversity, figured this would survive the early tank issues that will come) (added April 21 2021 ~2230 PST)

Feeding:
1 cube frozen brine shrimp (I know low feed value, and way too much for the bio load, right now I am more concerned that they eat and get food in the giant tank, than I am about having to do a little extra to export excess nutrients) (April 22 2021 ~1000 PST)
2X Tweezer loads of Spirulina 20 (tiny amounts) (April 22 2021 ~15:30 PST)
2X Tweezer loads of Xtreme Aquatic Foods Community Crave (tiny amounts) (April 22 2021 ~15:30 PST)

Everything seems to be fine, fish are [mostly] happy, and to my surprise the GSP opened today... Wasn't expecting that.

 

[brandon429]

I appreciate the digital data so much, feel free to update here anytime
B

 

[Salsa30]

Quick update, I'm the guy that super dosed the starter ammonia into his Dr. Tim's cycle. Here are the number's I'm getting as of today (day 13 with only the initial super dose of ammonia):

Date	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate	Notes
04/25/2021 3:45 PM	2		50	Day 13
04/24/2021 06:29 PM	2.4		50
04/23/2021 06:21 PM	2.4		40
04/22/2021 05:30 PM	3		25
04/21/2021 06:46 PM	3		15
04/20/2021 06:13 PM	3.8	.8
04/19/2021 08:17 PM	4	.5	5
04/18/2021 08:56 PM	4	.2
04/17/2021 11:55 PM	4	.2
04/16/2021				Did not Test
04/15/2021 05:02 PM	4+	.05
04/14/2021 05:00 PM	4+	0.05
04/13/2021 05:02 PM				Initial Dosing

Also, full tank shot as of today:

 

[brandon429]

seneye would read differently, its important to know that's not your actual ammonia its just what that tester reads. That being said, you can for sure change out your water and begin, it will be ready.

here's the exact 100% analog copy of that cycle above, in fact his ammonia was worse: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/100-water-change.752693/


your measures above are on the wastewater vs the clean water, with that much initial dosing few testers but seneye can handle all the mixed metabolites. simply change water and you're done, we aren't factoring the test kits (whole thread) we're factoring you're past ten day bottle bac.

its not that changing water will make your non seneye tester work right, its that it will make any fish or starting bioload you have live just fine, and be able to be fed daily etc/all normal tank activities.

 

[Acros]

I started the tank on 5/5/21 with live rock from gulfliverock.com. The rocks smelled like a fish market.

Day 0: Received rocks and added them to the tank after a quick rinse in 1.035sg water.

Day 1: My entire apartment stinks really bad and the water is cloudy. Tons of die off. I pulled the rock in a 5g bucket and removed as much dead stuff as I could. Added 90% new water to the tank as well as did two 100% water changes with the rock in the bucket.

Day 2: Did a 50% water change. Water is crystal clear.

Day 3: Did another 50% water change. Added seachem prime.

Day 4 - 6: No water changes. API test kit still reads anywhere between 2 - 4 ppm ammonia. Added one more dose of seachem prime.

Should do anything? Should I continue doing the water changes every day or should I just let it be?

I have 4 trochus snails in the tank who are doing fine and eating things off the rock.

The water still stinks, but I have to get close and really smell the water.

 

[brandon429]

that's a good plan above, what you did to squelch some of the curing die off is just fine. even the prime is ok, but it causes high false reads so manage it all off the smell factor for sure, and visuals. everything you did so far was perfect for the job I bet it will be fine and very diverse even still, nice job not having to wait 3 years for dry rock to come up to half that diversity or less.

 

[brandon429]

bump

we do not have to move 2 ppm to prove a cycle is ready. Any movement down shown, among rock and sand surface area that was in place during the wait time, shows a cycle is ready and today’s color tube comparison kits can handle that motion down in most cases, we all know they have trouble showing true zero

use duration time cycling, # days underwater, take back timely cycling rules from the sellers who already own your reef…break free using updated cycling science.


if you are being told to test for nitrite you’re being misled. If you’re being told to buy more than one ammonia test to see if you’re ready, you’re being misled by other buyers vs using sellers information to run your reef, be warned. Applying new cycling science saves you money long after your cycle, it saves money to be exacting with your retail purchases

not one of the new cycle umps who relay Dr. Tims bottle bac rules as the complete cycling guide mentions disease control to any of their readers, get ready for some mid summer losses and nh3 won’t be the cause, or nitrite.

 

[Acros]

I started the tank on 5/5/21 with live rock from gulfliverock.com. The rocks smelled like a fish market.

Day 0: Received rocks and added them to the tank after a quick rinse in 1.035sg water.

Day 1: My entire apartment stinks really bad and the water is cloudy. Tons of die off. I pulled the rock in a 5g bucket and removed as much dead stuff as I could. Added 90% new water to the tank as well as did two 100% water changes with the rock in the bucket.

Day 2: Did a 50% water change. Water is crystal clear.

Day 3: Did another 50% water change. Added seachem prime.

Day 4 - 6: No water changes. API test kit still reads anywhere between 2 - 4 ppm ammonia. Added one more dose of seachem prime.

Should do anything? Should I continue doing the water changes every day or should I just let it be?

I have 4 trochus snails in the tank who are doing fine and eating things off the rock.

The water still stinks, but I have to get close and really smell the water.

Day 9: No more stink from the water since the last two days.

The snails are doing just fine even though my API ammonia showed 4-8ppm during the early days. I am pretty confident my tank is cycled for fish now.

 

[brandon429]

Thanks tons for the update and the smell test it sounds so funny I know but tied with clean water, it’s a legit indicator (whereas no ammonia control is gray stinky water)


**I was able to see an experiment this week where we dosed massive amnts of ammonia, half a bottle of dr tims into a paint bucket setup, and the astrea snail didn’t die even after hours and there was no media in the bucket, he’s just tough. They’re all tough


it means these slugs can weather ammonia non control I was wrong prior in stating they’d die like lilly flowers lol oops. Someone tried to tell me that three years ago and I didn’t listen, might have been NeilP not sure lol apologies. The rascals are bullet proof.

 

[Acros]

I bought this tank used and the banded trochus snails came with the tank. I had to keep them in a bucket with no heat or flow for a little over a week while waiting for the live rock and other supplies.

I lost 2 of them as there were tons of die-off from a piece of rock I added. The tank was sitting with no heat or flow and tons of dead bristle worms for more than a week at the original owner's place.

I believe I lost the 2 to temp swings as it happened immediately after a 100% water change.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed

its nice to know the bacteria thought that was a walk in the park figuratively

 

[JTremonte]

I've skimmed through a few of these pages. I probably missed any fish in cycles with Dr. Tims.

Used Dr. Tims on day 1 and day 7. 4oz each time. 2 seperate bottles.

Day 16 with 2 Clown fish and a Diamond Watchman Goby. I had the option to take back to LFS incase ammonia got too high. Wasn't overly concerned about it to be honest with 3 small fish in a 55 gallon tank. Ammonia has yet to change much with an API kit. It did get slightly darker for a day to .5 then changed back. I switched day 10 to Salifert. Of course tank started showing brown algae, with some green spots coming in. Added some Turbo snails and Astrae snails past 3 days. They seem to love it. Also 4 hermit crabs for the nooks and crannies.

I will have pictures for the current day today. Representing API vs Salifert. I take Nitrate with a grain of salt because of the Nitrite readings. Fish are happy with 0 signs of anything.

Rock Sat collecting dust for a very long time. Sat them in water for a period of time with nothing showing up so assuming not ever used. Live sand, which the Goby moves around like crazy.

After everything I've read in this post I'm taking the assumption I am cycled. Just have to have more patience adding fish due to low Bioload.

 

[brandon429]

Very sharp, 100% cycled and thank you much for posting the nice new build here!

 

[brandon429]

High nitrites!

I’m not sure why but whenever I check my water levels the nitrites are high. Do I just need a water change? And what is the cause of high nitrites

www.reef2reef.com

another nitrite positive cleared reef.

highlights:

we dont care even if there is some nitrite, dont measure it in display tank reefing.

 

[brandon429]

The bet is, this cycle is done and not stalled. Old rules are ripping him off royally $$

NEED A DKH LESSON FOR CYCLING A TANK, PLEASE.

I have a fish only tank. 150 including sump. I have 9 foxface fish and one juvenile clown trigger. Despite literally 20 pounds of Soporax media, plus a supplemental high flow cannister filter filled with even more media, and a very high flow rate for both the sump and cannister, I have used...

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watch for unfolding details in updates coming.

 

[brandon429]

absolutely not stalled, but using old cycling rules was told stalled and bought more bac

Fishless Cycling Question w/Photos

Hello fellow reefers, I am starting a nano reef aquarium and this is the first time I have heard of fishless Cycle...I started the process almost two weeks ago with the Dr. Tim's instructions...that for some reason just didn't work for me; Ammoniaand Nitrate were literallyoff the charts...I...

www.reef2reef.com