We are going to fix your cycle without knowing your measurements, since kits range in accuracy so wildly. If you want to post api readings as of July 2022 I don't mind as we've now collected 31 pages of examples of api readings and red sea readings showing concern, while all along all our fish were continually ok
Sensitive organisms like lysmata shrimp always survive, because these waters are safe. If someone wants to post their api readings we already know the posted tank pic will be of normal happy fish. We don't mind the test kit pics, I used to loathe them lol. By page 31 we basically expect the pattern always now.
* don't think we're burning fish here just because cheap test kits said it. We get seneye spot checked a few times using our # of days wait marker for assigning start dates, and we pass digital inspection
We fail non digital inspection, we keep all animals alive, we pass all digital ammonia testing.... this is our whole thread you'll soon see in the posts.
Old school non digital kits are misleading us in subtle but effective ways
Tell us how you fed the system, and how many days the tank has had water in it
Over dosing your cycle with feed places more bacteria in the water than the rocks, the rocks only hold what they can after about ten days on a minor feeding--any cycling chart shows.
Inherent ammonia control doesn't vary wildly among any cycling chart dates you can find for a reason... day ten ammonia drop is there for a reason
our 30+ pages of safe testless cycles prove this rule of updated cycling science, that cycles don't stall. Ammonia control is inherent, predictable and reliable across cycles, cheap test kits mislead the masses on cycling truth
We take the number of days your tank has had water in it, we look at a cycling chart, we change your water if you've over fed, and upon refill your parameter that matters will be in control. Every time, consistently, we show.
-we give an EXACT start date to any request, whereas all other cycling threads are open-ended waits you can‘t plan anything with
if you use old, dated, incorrect cycle information that trains by fear and stalls you could NOT get invited to a reef tank convention and have your stuff ready on time, because you’ll be electing for the open-ended wait option
if you use our way, you WILL be able to make your start date on time because we define a clear, terminable start date for every reef tank posted here. If you open with non digital test kits, which are incorrect, then you confound conflate and combine the two opposing methods.
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If you are concerned about knowing the start date for your reef aquarium post here and we will name the date you can begin carrying a bioload plus its feed plus its generated waste. The whole point of the thread is that you think your cycle is stuck because some cheap test kits said so, and it isn't. If you will devote 20 mins reading to the threads listed in this first post, you will never fail to cycle a reef tank again and that means without testing for anything, we don't use cheap test kits here like other cycle threads.
cycles don't stall like we've been told.
When someone makes a handwritten or app-driven cycling chart, and the input data test source is unverified and non digital, that doesn’t make their charting correct; it makes it a complete distraction yet they’re still going to post the incorrect readings charts for feedback for pages because that’s the depth of mis training we’ve all been given
aquarists post and fixate on total ammonia readings, but we only care about nh3 in reefing. The ammonia you are concerned about is ten times lower than you were about to state here before intercept, you were about to report nh4 form ammonia that we don't factor. Nh4 vs nh3 factoring is where all cycle troubleshoots go wrong because reefers are trained to accept nothing less than all zero nh4, or the cycle is stalled.
if you're familiar with classic API .25-.5 levels in perfectly normal running reefs you have an idea why we never expect zero nh4/ total ammonia in stocked reef tanks. The real range we're running tank to tank due to repeated use of extra surface area live rock in display reefs is ~.001-.007 ppm nh3. It will take a seneye meter or similar device to see that degree of accuracy. Until then, expect red sea and api to always show 'some' ammonia vs none. This aspect of updated cycling science will remedy 99.9% of stuck cycle threads. The omission of all nitrite data further narrows down the cure rates on any given cycling post... hence the patterns of fixed cycles you'll see coming on this giant thread. Nobody posting actually had a broken cycle; I fixed nothing. They were all able to carry bioload right off the bat, due to repeating surface area designs reefers copy off each other. Most cycle assessment threads are about how the cycle was stalled, incomplete
But look at our data: anyone who posts is already done/ they tend to show up with rocks + bottle bac that are instantly able to carry a starting bioload.
see your test kits instructions for nh3 conversion—new cycling rules are already at work reducing concern. your cycle is not stuck, reef tank cycles do not stall.
Don’t test for nitrite in reef tank cycles
we still get nitrite readings posted on nearly every page despite this request because we are trained to think we can’t know about a cycles progress without the readings from cheap non digital test kits so cyclers post the data anyway, as if it’s correct and I’m supposed to alter an assigned start date off the data.
Nitrite testing and response must be omitted in this thread.
- don't test for nitrite in display tank reef cycling
in 2020 we started listening to Randy’s fifteen year old nitrite article. Our hobby ignored his chemistry advice to ignore nitrite, and now we will listen and actually test the claims here.
Nitrite cannot harm your cycling display reef, its chemically neutral,
we don’t want to see nitrite data here as it’s the #2 cause of false assumed stuck cycles and its a neutral param. even if positive, its not harming your cycle or animals. Nitrite is a freshwater risk, not a marine display aquarium high salinity risk and as MNFish1 pointed out per Randy’s article, special quarantine systems that may get very low salinity intervals can manage nitrite to track toxicity limits. Randy’s article shows us that in display reefs it’s not a concern so don’t concern over it.
The presence of nitrite cannot harm your inverts, your early corals or your fish or your cycle, don’t post nitrite data here as you’re using a seven dollar kit to measure nitrite and we don’t even believe the report is accurate anyway
Read this nitrite article
nitrite is chemically neutral for us in all presentations here.
if there are special interesting cases, I'll ask to see your nitrite readings (such as if you own a hanna digital nitrite meter)
mostly they'll mislead us,
don't post any nitrite measurements.
-Case Studies that reflect nearly all cycle tanks that will be posted here for years to come:
Actual reef tanks as case studies for the rest of the thread
———————————-First example using a reef tank for unsticking a cycle————————->
Do you see how his API kit said he had eight parts per million ammonia below, not cycled, but after one water change the aquarium was instantly ready and then turned into a reef?
read below the first example, every cycle umpire in existence would say the tank showing 8 ppm ammonia is stalled and not ready, but it wasn’t true. Was his bottle bac dead or nonfunctional just because nh4 read high level on api?
Read the thread to see how only one water change instantly made the tank ready, it was not stalled.
Just perfect! Ok we watch for number three pic in 24-48 hours, really great. This is a clear documentation can’t wait Even if it takes till Sunday to get motion down that means cycled. but If no change in color by Sunday nite, a stuck cycle, my worst fear lol this is like when you bet your...
www.reef2reef.com
*
every cycle umpire from every reef board in the world would say that cycle isn’t ready, wait weeks longer. What did one full water change accomplish, did he have to wait weeks? Stalled cycles are a false notion. If someone accidentally blasts ammonia into a cycle their bacteria aren't dead, just change out the excess wastewater for new and the functioning bio slick filter bacteria are left behind adhered to the rock. It's why Andrew's tank became a reef tank immediately after a water change but with no extra bacteria added.
Ammonia overdose posts are shown above... do a water change and begin after day ten wait. Cycle fixed.
consider this quarantine cycle challenge below
One water change and it’s carrying bioload just fine plus feed. Per nh4 reading, it was stalled and every umpire would have recommended to add more bacteria.
nothing was added to help the cycle, a water change was done to reveal working bioslicks under the initial wastewater. He was using a common degree of surface area we'd see in anyone's two- clownfish quarantine setup, so we knew it would cycle for ammonia control by day ten wait on any fed + boosted cycle...a cycling chart says so
20 gallon QT tank set up 30 days ago. I do not have a DT set up yet, just trying to get a jump on fish to add to my tank and make sure they're healthy and pest free right from the get go. Like I said tank was set up 30 days ago. Sponge filter and HOB filter running sponge and ceramic. Used...
www.reef2reef.com
**Think about the two case studies you just read. The first case study example is fixing a claimed stuck cycle reef tank with one full water change past day ten wait of a cycling chart's ammonia line.
JackAlexander then makes a complete reef out of his fixed cycle in live time
The bac were fed well, not killed by his overdose. Your tank is going to cycle in the same timeframe Jack's did, it doesnt matter if your levels are higher or lower than his. the water change resets it all, revealing a fully working filter underneath the former wastewater.
bottle bac sellers set maximum ammonia limits as a buying impulse, so you buy new bac to replace claimed dead ones
we just disproved high ammonia levels kill out a cycle above
On any cycling chart you can find in a book or online, by what date does the ammonia drop to safe levels?
On any chart, does it rise back up and hold?
There are no stuck cycles in reefing. nearly everyone that will post here has been running longer than ten days on a bottle bac mix, so expect most of the responses to state a past ready date, not a future one.
What you should be concerned about is fish disease, if you are a new cycler read this entire thread below to give your fish the best chance, ammonia and nitrite hasn’t killed anyone’s newly started reef but disease sure does— we will be the first cycling works to include fish disease study as the up front risk in all reef tank cycles.
Fish disease preps are required to keep your fish alive by month eight after they’re added. What buyers do is obsess over non digital test kits in an effort to create a safe environment for fish and then kill them within the first year by skipping disease preps=break that cycle here with us
I’ve had a 30 gallon set up since november. I have lost a tangoroa goby, two Midas blennies, a blackcap Basslet and all of the sudden one of my saddleback clowns just died. I’ve had the pair of clowns since January no problems. Please help any input would be much appreciated. What keep happening...
www.reef2reef.com
instead of posting charts and readings built from misreading test kits, post a chart showing what you’ve done to prepare for fish disease
*******look how for the next thirty pages non digital charts and api/ red sea read outs comprise all the data we discuss despite my opening plea, yet fish disease preps comprise about 2% of data we get presented though disease preps are the most important factor in our thread**********
Notice how in order to save fish for the hobby, we need to be discussing innovative fish disease preps, but instead all energy is directed at convincing people their slight nh4 reading is not indicative of a cycle stall. Fish disease loss comprises all recordable loss in forums, losses during cycling are so rare i don't know of any recent posts in the matter
Jay's disease forum here on rtr is busy trying to assist skip- prep systems who opted to focus on nitrite compliance vs vector control.
Take time to read the stickies in the disease forum, learn fallow and quarantine techniques, this will save your fish. For the next 30+ pages everyone's cycle is fine. None are broken or stalled you can see in the outcome pics showing happy fish in each job.
if you want to test and know ammonia accurately in your reef buy and
calibrate a seneye ammonia meter, then report those levels to us. Don’t forget to trim and calibrate it so it reads correctly, search out trim threads for the device. We want any and all seneye ammonia measurements you have from any setup using seneye.
in our thread we dont ask about your alkalinity nor salinity nor pH nor nitrite and yet we turn out pages of cycled reefs, that’s because those troubleshooting details aren’t required, cycles don’t stall with these common setup variances.
What do pros recommend on disease preps? Read below
A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.
www.reef2reef.com
A successful cycle involves a disease prep plan
the cycle was so easy you couldn't mess it up
Think about this: do reef conventions ever have trouble aligning 500 instant reef starts on time since 1998? no. No stalls, demo tanks carrying fifty grand in animals all skip cycle start on time, all the time. Buyers and forum cyclers are left with the open ended waits.
Sellers know how to start their reef at full power cycle any day they want, without ramp up
If you've read a cycling thread before, not any umpire would list an exact ready date for the person needing help. They place the start date safely in the hands of the nh4 test kit, an open- ended wait.
100% of every cycle posted here for help gets a specific start date given to them the instant we get a full tank description with number of days underwater listed. We ignore their test kits... we use updated cycling science here and turn out safe reefs not by adjusting what they do, but by adjusting what reef tank cyclers measure.
We measure time underwater as the primary determinant of cycle readiness...old cycling science uses strictly an nh4- reading test kit and tells us to buy more bacteria if it's not zero.
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