How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

[Streetcred]

I've never heard of a 'stuck cycle' ... but then the last time I 'cycled' a tank was +20 years ago ... just let it all happen in its own time and pace ... never ever had 0 nitrate, always detect nitrite with my Hanna tester ... and ammonia is just a phase that curing water goes through.
I don't understand the rush to throw stock into the tank ;-)

 

[brandon429]

false stuck cycles remove even a reasonable start date too, on our false nitrite reading thread we have some reefers who have been waiting ninety days for the clearance to start...but the api reading just won’t let em


we want to have simply a permitted can-reef date for our systems. Another time a deadline is needed to be met would be tank transfers and upgrades, when they move over to a new reef they need it ready in time no delays, we like to find stuck cycles where someone is past a desired start date and see if we can fix that vs arbitrary wait


stuck cycles sell lots and lots of extra bottled bac too, we want to lessen that market situation and restore truth in reef microbiology so we can be free of retail purchases where possible

not a single one of these posts were stuck:

 

[brandon429]

here's a current impact stuck cycle claim. owner has had to buy more than one strain of bottle bac

Cycling

Oops sory about that.

www.reef2reef.com

but the cycle is done right now, a couple days after the fritz was added provided the tank has rocks and sand for it to attach to

this is specifically the bottle bac sales machine in action. we have ways to get an earlier start date, without double investing, the market deserves to know.

as the post stands, there is strong impetus to buy more bottle bac right now, to account for the current readings after adding $ fritz, the costliest of the bottle bac options.

The way we've been taught to read cycles is wait for single reading zero ammonia


and seeing that in fulling running reefs on api is very rare, 20% of the time an api kit will show hard zero most are .25's per posted data. that loop alone/half a mil in extra sales of bottle bac, not needed.

Three point ammonia reading seals the deal, no question, any single strain of cycling bac we want to test.

 

[Aj050]

Allright, I am very curious if my cycle is finished then!
Following the BRS adviced cycle time of 2.5 months. Already 3 months in because I keep reading Nitrite (which I thought was bad)
Added Microbe Lift Nite Out 2 from the beginning until 2 months of cycling,and weekly dosing Microbe Lift Special Blend.
Current readings are:
0 ammonia
1.0 ppm Nitrite
35/40 ppm Nitrate
Everything tested with Salifert.

I thought, and my Lfs also claimed, that my cycle was stuck.because of this I am almost 3.5 months waiting to add fish to my display tank.

 

[brandon429]

I will state on the line it’s cycled in terms of ability to run your intended initial bioload. All cycling charts are done before this long, three times over.

what a very very helpful post Aj thst is truly right in line with what we are studying: when to call test kits wrong and just begin.
here are alternate ways to prove cycle ready: omit all nitrite and consider only ammonia movement.

if you can dose in a little cycling ammonia to bump a current level reading up a little bit, and then it goes back down to current ammonia levels in 24 hours, you are proof cycled.
second way: add fish and they’ll live vs die. Any dosed system 2-3 mos in the submersion time is set, nice job being patient

can u post pics of this reef, looking for additional cycling confirmations: absolutely any new growths attached to rock, sand or glass. Benthic signaling of a closed cycle

 

[Aj050]

I added a picture from the tank for you. I don't run any lights yet as recommended for the BRS cycling. After dosing Seachem prime, which also was advised by my Lfs to get nitrite down, I've got a reading of 1.5 ppm ammonia which disappeared within 2 days. That's what made me question if I wasnt already ready for fish.
In Holland we don't have a similar product like Dr Tim's ammonia so adding ammonia to the system is rather hard to do.
The picture doesn't show my sump, which also holds 2 maxspect bio blocks for additional bioload growth.

 

[Cell]

LFS claims cycle is stuck, sells more bottled bac as a result.

 

[Cell]

Looks super clean for a 3 mo old tank.

 

[brandon429]

I am 100% sure it is ready, thats a ton of surface area. Prime is a direct adulterant to nitrite testing, so nitrite is solved although there might have been some to trigger the initial reading, no problem either way.


thats one reason we stopped factoring nitrite. The misreads that persist. A common cycle chart shows us they’re 25 days ish to natural controls

the brs cycle 4 mos is designed to impart systems beyond just filtration, it’s also for dinos suppression, buildup of minor food webs vs just the common cold dry start in blinding white light. Your tank is cycled, no further testing needed


you can add some fish in the tank right now, pls pls update us when you do, it will work wonderfully. Nice patient cycle here



if you want to complete their 4 month wait, that’s fine as well but the cycle isn’t getting stronger only the food webs. The base cycle is as done in a 3 month setup as it is in a 6 month setup. The rock only holds so much bacteria and it fills up when a cycle chart says it does after this initial dosing added. Toss in a pinch of fish food ideally, some carbon boost per Dr Reefs thread, bac fuel.

 

[Aj050]

I took your advice and bought my first fish. Thanks for the advice and I will keep everyone updated.

 

[brandon429]

thanks tons! that's the best confirmation

not that anyone would do this, but imagine how an uncycled system goes down:

someone gets dry rock dry sand and saltwater, fills it up adds two clowns.

they swim normal for the first half of the day, maybe longer if 100 gallons lol. in a nano, half a day.

the keeper will certainly feed, its too fun to feed it can't be avoided. that food compounds even faster than the fish waste...by end of day fish are acting strange, water starting to cloud.

by midnite, hovering at the top gills burning, o2 already low due to diurnal cycles and in a new tank with no photosynthetics, its critically low.

keeled over by next morning.

ergo, every 48 hours that reef lives day to day acting normal is proof its cycled


that doesnt mean we're immune to cloudy water after a while, bac blooms depending on variables...but lethality due to ANY lack of cycling kills overnite, 2 days at best if the dilution was in a massive system.


but this tank just runs, day by day, and whatever api says will not matter at all. seneye with working slides will show the system in the thousandths ppm if tested, but we dont need to with water that clear and fish surviving past midnite lol

 

[brandon429]

if those fish die in a reasonable amount of time such that you think it wasnt cycled, message me and Ill paypal you their cost since you were willing to contribute to new cycling science with us.

I can tell you acclimated them well, they're looking mighty normal in that pic.

 

[Delouise]

Brandon~

"if you can dose in a little cycling ammonia to bump a current level reading up a little bit, and then it goes back down to current ammonia levels in 24 hours, you are proof cycled.
second way: add fish and they’ll live vs die. Any dosed system 2-3 mos in the submersion time is set, nice job being patient."

This is the crux of your discussion, is it not? That once we have been able to dose ammonia and within 24 hours it returns to the pre ammonia addition value, we are cycled, correct? OR is there a number of times this has to happen before we are considered cycled?

 

[brandon429]

If you were wondering why we’d subject a fish to the test its because we called the cycle done, if it was mid cycle we wouldn’t do that. Our evaluation of when a cycle is done is 95% based on number of days underwater compared with the directions on the bottle bac as to how long their mix takes to work. Thousands of fish+ bottle bac cycles show base ammonia control with zero wait, he’s six weeks above


the basic tenet that sets this thread apart from any cycling thread on the Internet is we don’t care what test kits say. We can abandon using test kits as soon as anyone is ready, that would be less misreads trying to cause doubt

a common cycling chart is an equation. You can solve for variables using either axis x or y

that’s why we have no bad starts and dead animals here. We already know minimum safe dates to wait even if your bottle bac was half dead when you added it
a common cycling chart is ten days to ammonia flatlining

especially with these powerful bac we can buy nowadays.

factoring in the copious ammonia people add + days underwater + source inoculation of exact bacteria we want = change the water and begin after a week or two and you can’t be stalled, especially if you can detect some nitrate.

the rule about getting ammonia to zero is retired, half or more of the tests in circulation can’t show thousandths ppm they’ll indicate it as tenths ppm ammonia. Anyone who posts here can name the start date they want to reef and we will attain that with or without testing. Just as if we wanted their tank in a reef convention, we will make any intended start date in this thread. nitrite will never factor, don’t even own the test kit for all your reefing time.

if someone wanted a no test cycle they’d buy about ten pounds of already cured live rock and some biospira bottle bac or fritz refrigerated

add this to any new tank you want it will skip any cycle for an initial bioload, the dry materials catch up in a few days due to association plus bottle bac. No test needed, moving cured live rock tank to tank does not cause a loss or mini cycle.

 

[Delouise]

If you were wondering why we’d subject a fish to the test its because we called the cycle done, if it was mid cycle we wouldn’t do that. Our evaluation of when a cycle is done is 95% based on number of days underwater compared with the directions on the bottle bac as to how long their mix takes to work. Thousands of fish+ bottle bac cycles show base ammonia control with zero wait, he’s six weeks above

the basic tenet that sets this thread apart from any cycling thread on the Internet is we don’t care what test kits say. We can abandon using test kits as soon as anyone is ready, that would be less misreads trying to cause doubt

a common cycling chart is an equation. You can solve for variables using either axis x or y

that’s why we have no bad starts and dead animals here. We already know minimum safe dates to wait even if your bottle bac was half dead when you added it
a common cycling chart is ten days to ammonia flatlining

especially with these powerful bac we can buy nowadays.

factoring in the copious ammonia people add + days underwater + source inoculation of exact bacteria we want = change the water and begin after a week or two and you can’t be stalled, especially if you can detect some nitrate.

the rule about getting ammonia to zero is retired, half or more of the tests in circulation can’t show thousandths ppm they’ll indicate it as tenths ppm ammonia. Anyone who posts here can name the start date they want to reef and we will attain that with or without testing. Just as if we wanted their tank in a reef convention, we will make any intended start date in this thread. nitrite will never factor, don’t even own the test kit for all your reefing time.

Ok. Here are my parameters and dates, I hope you can tell me if I’m close to being done, because as you stated, my NH says no way.
I filled the new Red Sea 350 on Oct 18th. Broke it in (with all the new equipment) for 2 weeks. Added Dr. Tim’s fishless cycle products per his instructions on Nov. 1st. My day 2 readings were:
pH=8.2
NH3=2+ Red Sea test result was much darker than the 2 highreading.
NO2=.05
I didn’t start measuring NO3 until I read this thread.

As of today, Nov 9th my readings are:
pH=8.2
NH3=2+
NO2=.2
NO3=2

 

[brandon429]

Thanks for posting! What’s your feed source for the bac

can you post a tank pic so we can look for any growth pigments on sand or rock / little signals

 

[brandon429]

What I would do is toss in a pinch of fish food while we evaluate. Dr Reefs trick relayed

 

[Aj050]

Unfortunately I've lost one of my clownfish today. Started a thread in clownfish and anenome section of R2R because I want to know why it died.

 

[brandon429]

How many days did it run after adding

can you post a tank pic curious to see overall.

* just read it, that’s seems assertive for a disease wow/ fast. He was in a week or so + feeding normally at start

i can see other threads like this in disease forum, let’s see what posters say. full tank shot to check visual details always helps full context. That was a conservative start, you hadn’t asked too much of your system. Amazing you got ammonia zero, with the classic .25 there’d be cycle uprising

 

[Aj050]

I've added them Thursday evening. This morning he laid between the rocks.