How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

[brandon429]

Your tests for pH are not accurate either, to be able to infer nh3/4 status, can we see the calibration test

(api pH isn’t factored as accurate on the site, but if you have a digital pH probe + calibrated it might be)


we want to shy away here from using your tests without calibration to infer cycle status, it’s been a few days now did you do the bucket test portion

I added a request on the first paragraph of the page one to exclude standard Api posts and begin only with the calibrated ones, that should help keep our thread completely different from all other stuck cycle posts going forward.

 

[f16dryver]

Your tests for pH are not accurate either, to be able to infer nh3/4 status, can we see the calibration test

(api pH isn’t factored as accurate on the site, but if you have a digital pH probe + calibrated it might be)


we want to shy away here from using your tests without calibration to infer cycle status, it’s been a few days now did you do the bucket test portion

I added a request on the first paragraph of the page one to exclude standard Api posts and begin only with the calibrated ones, that should help keep our thread completely different from all other stuck cycle posts going forward.

Ph was tested using an American marine pH probe.

 

[brandon429]

what about the calibrated test/bucket test/the #1 test we use when testing

have asked multiple times for that, so we can keep on track like we've been doing succinctly for each challenge

hopefully edits on page one/post one prevent that going forward, we only want the calibrated testing and not the standard api testing, that way we can make the assessments fast and quick. Toiling over what api says without calibration is every other cycling post.

 

[f16dryver]

I think the question isn't so much that api ammonia tests are inacurrate. Rather, it's measures TAN which is rather high in new tanks started on NH4CL with a high ratio of nh4 to nh3, which gives the impression that a cycle has stalled.

I think more awareness that fishless nh4cl cycling results in high nh4 which I assume reduces over time with wc or macro algae introduction.

@Randy Holmes-Farley is this common with fishless nh4cl cycled tanks?

 

[brandon429]

we discussed a simple bucket isolation test, could have been ran 3 days ago or even better as your initial post

I couldnt figure out why you didnt open with that test, vs the pegged green Api test, and pH discussion, which we stated for pages that we don't use. it seemed strange at the start but I was happy to have the participation... I didnt think you were overlooking it on purpose but instead a new cycler who hadn't read any of the pages but was just wanting to know if the cycle was stuck

 

[brandon429]

For readers

we have not factored pH to any degree in this thread for a reason, common pH variances cannot stall your cycle or affect your date fish can be carried ethically.

*we absolutely enjoy the graphs and chemistry info on nh3/4 conversions that runs our reefing. but in no way does a reflection on an uncalibrated API test factor here, a person can cause that result merely by dosing Prime into a cycled reef and then posting the outcome as a distraction. a green test tube means nothing here, it can be fabricated on purpose or by accident. tuned seneye is not confounded we've seen. Notice how all stuck cycle concerns never involve a tuned seneye, watch this trending its 100% consistent in forums.

Nobody debates for pages what a tuned seneye says, but api issues are always debated for pages, its why we do not want uncalibrated test kit discussions.


(a tuned seneye means the device reads in normal range on a working reef, post cycle, they have to be trim adjusted out of the box to attain their sensitivity. at this point you can use the device on newly cycled systems or experiments to discern nh3 in a very precise manner, we assume its correct until another digital meter comes along {such as a hach meter} and shows us the seneye is not correct. nobody has ever made that case so far)

 

[f16dryver]

I did do the bucket test. I just did it with the whole tank by adding another 1ppm of nh4cl and found nh3 did fall with TAN still stuck at the higher value of 3.



I think that's really where the problem lies, nh4cl dosing with api test kits. Like you pointed out, the seneye user would never have experienced this because he doesn't see the nh4, only the nh3.

The ammonia badge shows I'm good to go, my api shows 2ppm after a 80% wc.

They're both right.

 

[brandon429]

ok thank you for the follow up.

The final action we use here for start date proofing is the fish report...when you add fish we think the water will remain clear and everything will be in working order, but not Api, and it would be nice to know after a few days how the water quality looks and if the fish feed/ swim normally etc.

Prior patterns logged make your start date now/ few days ago-roughly day ten of the arrangement at worst such as if your bottle was shipped wrong and insulted somehow in holding. A normal dose of ammonia was likely controlled immediately upon adding bac, I bet nothing was wrong with your bacteria, that's what all searchable results show using seneye at least. adding fish to your 80% water change tank now resets all concerns to safe levels, can proceed.


we always start suspect cycles with a full water change as what's left behind and adhered does the filtration work required. Seeing pics of the tank after adding bioload would really help.

 

[brandon429]

Another

Originally claimed nitrite stalled

Track out the tanks history, has coral and fish, it was never stalled.

Cycling new tank - Nitrite won't go down (week 6.5)

Hello everyone! I recently bought a 4 feet (100g) tank but we're having problems with our cycle. You can see my pics below! To give context, here is our detailed timeline for your understanding. In blue are the key events that I did. 1. Day 1 - our DT came but there was a scratch on the...

www.reef2reef.com

Nitrite cannot reach lethal levels in any reef cycle and it cannot stall ammonia control in a cycling display tank.

another really easy one here below

New tank cycling

Hey everyone. I've been cycling my 72 gallon tank for 8 weeks now. I ghost fed for a few weeks, then stopped. I have ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Used both red sea and api test kits. I did do a 15% water change a little over a week ago. My nitrates were over 50. Question is my...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[OliverE]

Hi everyone,

Just thought I’d add my two cents.

I’ve been cycling my first ever reef tank since 16 April. I used dry sand and dry rock and no bacteria. After approximately 10 days I had no NH3 according to my Red Sea kit and I was looking forward to starting my reef.

Unfortunately I’ve been stuck at 1ppm NO2 since that date and I still am. This led to my LFS recommending 100% WC. I did this three times across three weeks and my NO3 levels were repeatedly reduced but my NO2 levels were constantly at 1ppm.

Because I was so frustrated I decided to find out if the sand or rocks were a problem. I removed the rocks and placed them in clean saltwater and changed out my saltwater in my tank leaving the sand in there. The only result in my tank was reduced NO3 and slightly reduced NO2 to 0.5ppm. But in the new SW with the rocks I had very slightly detectable NH3 and 0.5 NO2.

After reading this thread I plan to put some livestock in after I have a 10 day holiday and will update with my results.
You’re so right about LFS selling products as they believed my cycle had something wrong, like moths or a cockroach in my tank, leading to the NO2. Interestingly they tested my water with a Salifert test and received the same results as I did. I ended up buying a bottle of bac and bio balls from a German company for my cycling trouble, nearly totalling $100.
I live in Australia, so that’s why the cost.

Thanks very much everyone!

 

[BombadBrad]

My 32 gallon has been cycling for a week now. Live caribsea sand, dry rock, marine pure bio filter, chemipure blue, rodi water. I am trying to do fishless cycle. I dosed ammonia and fritzyme turbo start. I had the initial spike of ammonia and it has gone back down and stuck around minimal readings. The nitrites however have skyrocketed past my chart and don’t seem to want to move. Would you claim that I am cycled?

 

[brandon429]

One thousand percent cycled, yes, fritz is skip cycle bac. Nitrite no longer factors in marine tank cycles, see the proofs from page one and all subsequent links



your cycle only seemed stuck due to a param that no longer factors. Any fish you add will certainly live. Do a big water change first so you’re starting out with clean water vs algae fuel

 

[Cell]

Hi everyone,

Just thought I’d add my two cents.

I’ve been cycling my first ever reef tank since 16 April. I used dry sand and dry rock and no bacteria. After approximately 10 days I had no NH3 according to my Red Sea kit and I was looking forward to starting my reef.

Unfortunately I’ve been stuck at 1ppm NO2 since that date and I still am. This led to my LFS recommending 100% WC. I did this three times across three weeks and my NO3 levels were repeatedly reduced but my NO2 levels were constantly at 1ppm.

Because I was so frustrated I decided to find out if the sand or rocks were a problem. I removed the rocks and placed them in clean saltwater and changed out my saltwater in my tank leaving the sand in there. The only result in my tank was reduced NO3 and slightly reduced NO2 to 0.5ppm. But in the new SW with the rocks I had very slightly detectable NH3 and 0.5 NO2.

After reading this thread I plan to put some livestock in after I have a 10 day holiday and will update with my results.
You’re so right about LFS selling products as they believed my cycle had something wrong, like moths or a cockroach in my tank, leading to the NO2. Interestingly they tested my water with a Salifert test and received the same results as I did. I ended up buying a bottle of bac and bio balls from a German company for my cycling trouble, nearly totalling $100.
I live in Australia, so that’s why the cost.

Thanks very much everyone!

If your LFS doesnt know nitrite doesnt harm marine fish, fine, they should though. But if they dont know nitrate tests arent accurate with nitrite present, I'm finding a new LFS.

 

[brandon429]

@OliverE

hey I’d missed your post until Cell replied, agreed fully. Adding absolutely nothing other than water since April will fully cycle any substrates/rock in contact that long, and I’ve never met a lfs nor an lfs employee who would attest to that dynamic. Not by sheer will to mislead, but by training. Not any cycling reference made discussed wait time cycling. I’ve truly seen Dr Tim mention it a few times in works but not to the degree that nitrite stalling is mentioned, canonized in fact


once we add in non digital testing there’s no hope of completing cycles using the common method. There will always be a perceived problem that needs a purchase

 

[BombadBrad]

@brandon429 So I have officially stocked my first fish in my 32 gallon aquarium. One 1.5” clown. This was after about 80% water change. The fish has been doing great after drip acclimating. He’s now been in DT for about 30 hours. I have a question about my cycle test results though. I know Nitrites do not apply anymore as you say but when should I see them bottom out? I’m just curious as I’m still showing somewhere between .5 and 1ppm Nitrites. Also, at what level of NO2 can I start testing for NO3 when they will no longer be thrown off by the NO2?

 

[brandon429]

a common cycling chart shows 30 days or so to nitrite compliance, that's a fair reference. also, since we only have api to base on, we'll never know if your readings are correct at all.

if you notice in pattern after searching api ammonia reliability, its low.


but we tend to buy it lock stock and barrel for nitrite readings only because there's no other tester so dont fret over nitrite, truly I'd stop the self torture of wielding or owning the kit. it only sows doubt and tendency to buy more bac

 

[BombadBrad]

a common cycling chart shows 30 days or so to nitrite compliance, that's a fair reference. also, since we only have api to base on, we'll never know if your readings are correct at all.

if you notice in pattern after searching api ammonia reliability, its low.


but we tend to buy it lock stock and barrel for nitrite readings only because there's no other tester so dont fret over nitrite, truly I'd stop the self torture of wielding or owning the kit. it only sows doubt and tendency to buy more bac

Mine is actually a RedSea test kit but I assume your advise remains the same.

 

[brandon429]

Hey I didn’t even know they had nitrite, awesome. Truly thought it was all api nitrite

 

[BombadBrad]

Hey I didn’t even know they had nitrite, awesome. Truly thought it was all api nitrite

Yeah in their marine care kit you get ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph and alkalinity

 

[BombadBrad]

Hey I didn’t even know they had nitrite, awesome. Truly thought it was all api nitrite

So if I won’t be going off of water quality samples for my water changes should I just start doing them proactively every couple days right now? Once a week?