I’m Venting! Follow My Math.

[AKL1950]

Can’t get this out of my head, so thought I would share and get other opinions.

Since I started buying corals for my new tank (first corals went in one year ago), here is the survivability numbers. Total of 75 corals, mostly Acropora. Company A, 51 coals, one death for a 98% survival rate. Company B, 12 corals, zero deaths for a 100% survival rate. Company C, 13 corals, 4 deaths for a 69% survival rate. Of the corals from company C, two to three more don’t look like they will make it, which will bring it down to a 54% survival rate.

If I just look at the numbers, it seems that I should never buy corals from Company C again, because their survival rate is pretty bad. But, the question I can’t seem to answer is why. All three companies are very respected and have a good reputations in the industry.

Options I’ve considered are; 1) Their corals aren’t that healthy, 2) They are the only corals I have shipped to me (Companies A and B I pick up locally), 3) My system parameters and much different from theirs causing too much stress on their corals in my tank, 4) Any combination of the first three.

I hate losing corals and would really like to find an answer, but still can’t find one the makes since. Looking for thoughts, opinions or ideas as to why I can’t keep corals from one company alive, but those from other companies are thriving and growing well.

What am I missing?

 

[jmoneyyy703]

Could be several factors: water chemistry (temp/alk/mg/ca,
/trace/nitrates/phosphates), flow, light schedule/par, pests? Sometimes if your system is drastically different then companies it impacts coral adaptability.

 

[AKL1950]

Could be several factors: water chemistry (temp/alk/mg/ca,
/trace/nitrates/phosphates), flow, light schedule/par, pests? Sometimes if your system is drastically different then companies it impacts coral adaptability.

Could be, but I can’t put my finger on it. I would think if my parameters were less than optimal, I would be losing corals evenly from All sources and not just one. I’ve ask them about there parameters and mine are very close to theirs. As I said, the corals from the other two companies are all growing extremely well.

 

[Dburr1014]

Can’t get this out of my head, so thought I would share and get other opinions.

Since I started buying corals for my new tank (first corals went in one year ago), here is the survivability numbers. Total of 75 corals, mostly Acropora. Company A, 51 coals, one death for a 98% survival rate. Company B, 12 corals, zero deaths for a 100% survival rate. Company C, 13 corals, 4 deaths for a 69% survival rate. Of the corals from company C, two to three more don’t look like they will make it, which will bring it down to a 54% survival rate.

If I just look at the numbers, it seems that I should never buy corals from Company C again, because their survival rate is pretty bad. But, the question I can’t seem to answer is why. All three companies are very respected and have a good reputations in the industry.

Options I’ve considered are; 1) Their corals aren’t that healthy, 2) They are the only corals I have shipped to me (Companies A and B I pick up locally), 3) My system parameters and much different from theirs causing too much stress on their corals in my tank, 4) Any combination of the first three.

I hate losing corals and would really like to find an answer, but still can’t find one the makes since. Looking for thoughts, opinions or ideas as to why I can’t keep corals from one company alive, but those from other companies are thriving and growing well.

What am I missing?

Out of the options,
1) did they look healthy when you got them?
2) were they on time? Packed well?
3) did you or can you ask for there parameters?
4) well, yes, any combination.

 

[PocketGoose]

shipping stress is a whole other monster. Do you light acclimate? What is your procedure when transferring to your tank?

 

[AKL1950]

Out of the options,
1) did they look healthy when you got them?
2) were they on time? Packed well?
3) did you or can you ask for there parameters?
4) well, yes, any combination.

Yes on all of the above. They all looked healthy on arrival. After about a week, they would start to loose their color. alter about two weeks they would be almost white, but still show good florescence under a blank light at night. After about a month, algae would start growing on them. I discussed all issues with the company to try and analyze it, but we couldn’t find a viable answer.

 

[AKL1950]

shipping stress is a whole other monster. Do you light acclimate? What is your procedure when transferring to your tank?

Once arrived, I would float them in the sump for about an hour. After that, I would acclimate them to salinity and them dip them in Coral RX for 5-6 minutes in a 50-50 mixture of bag water and tank water. Then rinse them in tank water and position them in a Frag rack at a medium to low position in the tank. They would stay there for 1-2 days at a PAR of around 200 and then position them in their final position on the top ledges. PAR at the final positions runs about 275-325 With good flow. Same as I do with the other Acro’s.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Are the frags showing any growth on the plugs... Noticing that is a BIG deal with sps and health overall as I slowly wade in to across after 20+ years of avoiding them due to temperament. My frags I've been ordering as of late with growth on the plug tend to be much more healthy and tolerant.

 

[Kasrift]

Well I'd take a couple of guesses. For starters, I've seen you in the SBB threads but not super often, so I'll assume it is company B as I've had nothing but success with acros once I started buying there.

As to why I had success, well I had some success before but most everything I bought was maricultured or wild and those have a lowet survival rate. The longer they are tank acclimated the better success for hobbyists I believe. I've never bought from any giant vendors like TSA or WWC, but I'd have to assume some of theirs are easy to keep.

 

[AKL1950]

Well I'd take a couple of guesses. For starters, I've seen you in the SBB threads but not super often, so I'll assume it is company B as I've had nothing but success with acros once I started buying there.

As to why I had success, well I had some success before but most everything I bought was maricultured or wild and those have a lowet survival rate. The longer they are tank acclimated the better success for hobbyists I believe. I've never bought from any giant vendors like TSA or WWC, but I'd have to assume some of theirs are easy to keep.

Definitely seen you there as well. Unfortunately, SBB is not company A or B. That’s what has me puzzled. So many have excellent success with SBB coral, but I can’t seem to find that sweet spot for them. What parameters do you keep your tank at? There has to be something I’m doing that their corals don’t like. I just have to find it. Also, you must be empathic. Companies A and B are WWC and TSA. They qualify as my LFS’s.

 

[AKL1950]

Are the frags showing any growth on the plugs... Noticing that is a BIG deal with sps and health overall as I slowly wade in to across after 20+ years of avoiding them due to temperament. My frags I've been ordering as of late with growth on the plug tend to be much more healthy and tolerant.

The ones that seem to be surviving do show encrusting, but the others never did.

 

[blecki]

If they aren't encrusted then you have to assume they are very recently fragged and fresh frags have a higher mortality rate

 

[AKL1950]

If they aren't encrusted then you have to assume they are very recently fragged and fresh frags have a higher mortality rate

Understand, but some of them already had algae growing on the base, so they weren’t very fresh frags.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

If they aren't encrusted then you have to assume they are very recently fragged and fresh frags have a higher mortality rate

This. Fresh cuts tens to have high mortality rates, it screams chop shop corals.

 

[bushdoc]

You may never find the cause, I would just stop buying from them. There’s planty of coral vendors, including local ones.
One of my LFS has good selection of healthy looking corals, but also lots of aiptasia in their tanks, so I just don’t go there anymore.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

There's something very obvious about the survival rates and I'd imagine most people have noticed but not said anything because they assume you're taking it into account as well. Just in case, I'd like to point out that you only lost a total of 3 more corals from company c than company a. You're making it seem far more significant by calculating the survival rate which takes into account the total number bought which is 51 compared to only 13. 4 corals dying isn't many logically. It looks statistically significant but it's not logically significant to conclude that 4 corals dying means there's something wrong with that company... without mentioning any of the many factors at play, you just don't have enough data in each set (or an equal amount for each set) so taking the average doesn't mean much.

 

[AKL1950]

There's something very obvious about the survival rates and I'd imagine most people have noticed but not said anything because they assume you're taking it into account as well. Just in case, I'd like to point out that you only lost a total of 3 more corals from company c than company a. You're making it seem far more significant by calculating the survival rate which takes into account the total number bought which is 51 compared to only 13. 4 corals dying isn't many logically. It looks statistically significant but it's not logically significant to conclude that 4 corals dying means there's something wrong with that company... without mentioning any of the many factors at play, you just don't have enough data in each set (or an equal amount for each set) so taking the average doesn't mean much.

Yes, you are right and I am Whining a bit, it’s just that I’m not used to losing corals. It’s got to be a combination of things/events that is at the root of it and I’m just trying to get some other eyes looking at it to help me see the way.

 

[Kasrift]

Definitely seen you there as well. Unfortunately, SBB is not company A or B. That’s what has me puzzled. So many have excellent success with SBB coral, but I can’t seem to find that sweet spot for them. What parameters do you keep your tank at? There has to be something I’m doing that their corals don’t like. I just have to find it. Also, you must be empathic. Companies A and B are WWC and TSA. They qualify as my LFS’s.

I'm 29 surviving out of 31 SBB acros. To be fair, only two deaths occurred after I dosed Reef Flux which made me nervous.

Parameters are as follows:

78 degrees (inkbird)
7.5 alk (Hanna)
.03-.08 PO4 (Hanna)
5-8 Nitrates (Hanna)
425 calcium (Salifert)
1425 mag (Aquaforest)
About 8.2 ph (Hanna)

I recently switched to Aquaforest Probiotic salt, but was using TM Probiotic salt prior. I dose all for reef 17ml a day to maintain alk, water change 10,% weekly. Use Korallen Zucht pohls coral vitalizer and Aquavitro fuel as well as live Tetra and Nanno phyto that I culture daily.

 

[billyocean]

The coral rx may be a bit harsh on sbb as they are dipped in kcl before bagging. I follow with a kcl dip before I put in my tank and my survival is high 90s

 

[billyocean]

Also..mine are usually coloring up within a week or two.