I HAVE NO CORAL GROWTH!
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cvicente
Active Member
I had the same problem until I installed the calcium reactor. These units supply a lot of bicarbonates which is what corals really use. To me alkalinity readings are not that reliable and a very complex parameter in reefkeeping . There are some nano calcium reactors that you could use on such a small setup. Before the calcium reactor I tried calcium hydroxide, different brands of alkalinity supplements, both powder and liquid, 2 Part dosing and nothing worked. I currently have a GEO 612 with aragonite media.
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
you just contradicted yourself. you said that small of a tank needs no nutrient removal, but to do 100% water changes? thats 100% nutrient removal. and ill have to disagree with you completely. nano tanks need more nutrient removal than larger tanks because you have much less room for error, and a smaller amount of water volume is much harder to keep clean than a large volume. i will not be doing 100% water changes, as all the coralline on the rocks will die if exposed to air every single week. water movement? there are happy acropora in there, there is plenty of water movement! i have a "crazy" light because some acropora need up to 300-500PAR. this tank will be all SPS soon as well. i have the light positioned in a way that there is a lot of variation in PAR around the tank.
(my deepest apologizes for not stating clearer what i meant) No nutrient removal meaning chem's, gfo, skimmer etc... Been reefing long enough to know water changes are by far the easiest with small nano's for ease of success over other methods especially when the corals get used to it including sps's. Here are my 2g and 4g nano's. Just simple led's some fish and pellet feed with 100 percent water changes ever 3-4 weeks. Only sps's was a monti which plated very fast. They say "practice what you preach" so sorry if i laid some vague statements, they just work for me. Reason i posted and mentioned anything was you were after growth even with softies. Personally i like my systems wondering if others would too ?
ahh i see, thats why I've said a few times that I'm going to just remove the skimmer, and keep the reactor for the acros. (see my pictures above as to why). my normal mushrooms (AKA not ricrodia) have no problem multiplying. I'm sure if i put a ton of softies as you (gsp, palys, photosyntehtic gorgs, easy zoas, and for the sps, monti cap is just about the easiest sps there is) i'd get normal growth! I've strayed away from these things BECAUSE its a nano- i don't need it to be overgrown within 6 months.
ill be increasing the percentage of my water change! ill pull from the sump instead of the DT and drain the sump which holds about 5gal, so that'll be close to 50%
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
was that a stab at me saying "wow you clearly haven't been reefing long enough to know something so trivial?" moving on...does coralline grow in 0 levels of nutrients as well? and the micro algae on the glass? and the cheato in the sump?
hm, new and interesting thought. you don't think dosing a calcium supplement and maintaining a high enough level is enough? i know you tried a lot of different things but what results werent you seeing? just judging by growth or what your tank water tested out as?
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
skimmate pic! one week. don't think there would be this much from an 8g if I wasn't feeding enough...
brad65ford
Active Member
rosieosiee, i think you surely don't understand me regarding coming off to offend anyone. I don't' make fun of or try to stab anyone's intelligence especially in this hobby just wanted to share some of my success with softies/growth and 100 percent water changes. Frustration in the hobby and peoples opinions can get the best of us., also marketing and over complicating things as well can make if difficult. I just wanted to mentioned all the add on for a small tank are really not needed since water changes are so so simple for us we actually have an advantage over larger tanks once the practice is down to a routine. Load up the nutrients and remove them, its a timing thing with the fish load/food 
Sorry my pic's are the greats but the 2g pico photos with the white background I used to drop the water down and pick up the rock formation and clean the front and side panels but leave the back with coraline. As long as it doesn't dry out I'd surely say your fine for not having it die. Treat it the same as any other coral/algae.
P.s. just saw your post of your skimming. Personally i wouldn't skim in that size of a tank but again i'm doing something different with nutrients/waste and replenishing elements.
Sorry my pic's are the greats but the 2g pico photos with the white background I used to drop the water down and pick up the rock formation and clean the front and side panels but leave the back with coraline. As long as it doesn't dry out I'd surely say your fine for not having it die. Treat it the same as any other coral/algae.
P.s. just saw your post of your skimming. Personally i wouldn't skim in that size of a tank but again i'm doing something different with nutrients/waste and replenishing elements.
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
rosieosiee, i think you surely don't understand me regarding coming off to offend anyone. I don't' make fun of or try to stab anyone's intelligence especially in this hobby just wanted to share some of my success with softies/growth and 100 percent water changes. Frustration in the hobby and peoples opinions can get the best of us., also marketing and over complicating things as well can make if difficult. I just wanted to mentioned all the add on for a small tank are really not needed since water changes are so so simple for us we actually have an advantage over larger tanks once the practice is down to a routine. Load up the nutrients and remove them, its a timing thing with the fish load/food
Sorry my pic's are the greats but the 2g pico photos with the white background I used to drop the water down and pick up the rock formation and clean the front and side panels but leave the back with coraline. As long as it doesn't dry out I'd surely say your fine for not having it die. Treat it the same as any other coral/algae.
P.s. just saw your post of your skimming. Personally i wouldn't skim in that size of a tank but again i'm doing something different with nutrients/waste and replenishing elements.
the only reason i brought up the coralline dying is because i have had it happen before. just drained the tank for a mere 5-10m and the entire tank (rocks, walls, glass) everything was completely white the next day. this was a tank that has been set up for years and everything was completely covered in coralline.
did you read the original post? it explains all of my filtration components in the sump, and like I've said, I'm going to now move the sump onto my 60g and just keep the reactor for this tank, that and water changes will be the only nutrient export then.
i know you don't HAVE to skim a nano, you don't even HAVE to skim a 60g in my opinion. but as I've said before in this thread, i built this nano to be over the top and ridiculous. who actually needs a nano with a 400$ light, a skimmer, doser, reactor, ATO, sump, etc? no one. i just wanted to do it because i can.
brad65ford
Active Member
Gotcha ya on the corlaine never had that happen to me.
I did read most of it I could have missed somethings.
Your right you don't but some of that could be hurting your success, actually you may have proven just that... having all that and you are not happy with the results. I do wish you the best but I will bow out at this point.
Take care.
Best,
Brad
I did read most of it I could have missed somethings.
Your right you don't but some of that could be hurting your success, actually you may have proven just that... having all that and you are not happy with the results. I do wish you the best but I will bow out at this point.
Take care.
Best,
Brad
Devlin
Active Member
All of his stuff is mostly cut to order. But his frags are good quality. You can PM him if you are looking for something mostly encrusted. But he usually doesn't keep frags for long.
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
i agree they are! thats why i am taking the sump off.
FL_Reefer
Valuable Member
Rosie, the more I read this thread the more I think that you shouldn't change anything but your lights. The tank looks great because of all of things you are doing. The corals should have plenty of ''food'' by what you are adding. As I read all of this again it clicked. I went through the same thing with the same LED companies light but a different model. My tank looked great for 7 months, color was great too but had no growth. I'm not knocking Rapid LED or anything but I feel the real issue here is your lighting. Put some small T5's or a small MH over the thing and I bet things will start growing. It didn't even dawn on me that you were using that type of light till now. O and get you a couple of emerald crabs, lol
Just going to chime in here and try to help.
Ive had a range of tanks from 10g>34g>75g and now a 120g and have been trying sps forever with some success and of-course many issues...
First, I' haven't seen anyone here speak about tank parameters, however Calcium at 500 is way way too high. this is possibly a issue due to the test kits or perhaps your salt mix is not adequate, there is no reason calcium should be this high - if calcium is 500 then Mg will be around 1500 (too high) Mag should be 3x Calcium
Secondly sps like extremely stable parameters, and it sounds like the alk was at 11 and now its around 8.... from my experience alk at 8dkh is closer to LNS which clearly this tank does not have, so I suggest keeping the Alk at higher levels 9-11 and bringing the calcium in line at 400-420 and Magnesium around 1200-1300
Now keeping very stable parameters in a nano is extremely difficult and just for this reason alone, I'd focus more on the soft side of coral which is already really working out for you really well due to elevated nitrates and phosphates and fluctuations in parameters. Also pick up a piece of a birdsnest and see if you get any growth on that; birdsnest is the easiest sps to take care of and it grows like weeds - for reference, i started with a 1" piece of ORA birdsnest in February and I now have two colonies, each the size of a soccer ball plus many frags around 5-7" with multiple branches. Also montis are very sensitive and grow quite well - again another great indication of growth or issues within the tank. I don't particularity like montis, however I find it easy to read tank parameters just by looking at a monti
Your first indication of growth will be the coraline; if coraline grows then the coral will also grow. Also take a full set of readings and have a friend test the same water with different kits to see if there is any discrepancy. I also believe taking the sump off is going to be a bad idea for SPS as you are greatly going to reduce the water volume making the tank parameter fluctuation that much greater (remember you want stability)
Have you done any dips
Bubble algae will thrive in any conditions, it is not in direct relation with phosphates... I have been holding my old rock from previous tank in a brute with a lid/heater and pump for over a year and after about 10 months the bubble started to die... keep in mind there is no light in this brute trashcan and the salinity is reallllly high due to evaporation.
If I would be to guess, I'd say coral is not happy due to parameters and will not grow; I find Alk swings to be the worse for SPS. Also have you dipped any coral for pests?
Love the LPS in this tank regardless if you have SPS or not, very nicely done and awesome colors.
Ive had a range of tanks from 10g>34g>75g and now a 120g and have been trying sps forever with some success and of-course many issues...
First, I' haven't seen anyone here speak about tank parameters, however Calcium at 500 is way way too high. this is possibly a issue due to the test kits or perhaps your salt mix is not adequate, there is no reason calcium should be this high - if calcium is 500 then Mg will be around 1500 (too high) Mag should be 3x Calcium
Secondly sps like extremely stable parameters, and it sounds like the alk was at 11 and now its around 8.... from my experience alk at 8dkh is closer to LNS which clearly this tank does not have, so I suggest keeping the Alk at higher levels 9-11 and bringing the calcium in line at 400-420 and Magnesium around 1200-1300
Now keeping very stable parameters in a nano is extremely difficult and just for this reason alone, I'd focus more on the soft side of coral which is already really working out for you really well due to elevated nitrates and phosphates and fluctuations in parameters. Also pick up a piece of a birdsnest and see if you get any growth on that; birdsnest is the easiest sps to take care of and it grows like weeds - for reference, i started with a 1" piece of ORA birdsnest in February and I now have two colonies, each the size of a soccer ball plus many frags around 5-7" with multiple branches. Also montis are very sensitive and grow quite well - again another great indication of growth or issues within the tank. I don't particularity like montis, however I find it easy to read tank parameters just by looking at a monti
Your first indication of growth will be the coraline; if coraline grows then the coral will also grow. Also take a full set of readings and have a friend test the same water with different kits to see if there is any discrepancy. I also believe taking the sump off is going to be a bad idea for SPS as you are greatly going to reduce the water volume making the tank parameter fluctuation that much greater (remember you want stability)
Have you done any dips
Bubble algae will thrive in any conditions, it is not in direct relation with phosphates... I have been holding my old rock from previous tank in a brute with a lid/heater and pump for over a year and after about 10 months the bubble started to die... keep in mind there is no light in this brute trashcan and the salinity is reallllly high due to evaporation.
If I would be to guess, I'd say coral is not happy due to parameters and will not grow; I find Alk swings to be the worse for SPS. Also have you dipped any coral for pests?
Love the LPS in this tank regardless if you have SPS or not, very nicely done and awesome colors.
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
I've been searching for a small enough MH forever, but there are none that i can find that would even look remotely proportional to a 10g. same thing with T5s, the smallest I've heard of is 16", my tank is 8" right now, and the fusion 10 is only 12".
params were stated at the beginning! 500 cal shouldn't inhibit growth, but yes, i agree with you its not ideal. i haven't tested cal in two weeks but it was sitting around 490-500, and i have not dosed since then. once again, the salt mix is salinity by aqua vitro. my mag sits around 1300-1400. my alk isn't swinging....its dosed DAILY by a bubble magus doser. when i said it was sitting at 11, that was about 5 months ago. for the last 5 months, its been at 8, I've been trying to get it up, trust me. i don't think a 5month swing ONE TIME is inhibiting anything from growing. during the week that it swung (i moved) i lost a ton of sps. you'd think 5 months later i would be back on track.
i am keeping away from the "fast growers" as stated above because its a nano, and i don't want it overgrown within 6months.
also, i test my water at my LFS, so just about every single time i get my water tested, its a brand new set of test kits (they're busy and water tests are free there!)
no dips- only thing wrong with the tank parasite-wise is flatworms, but their population stays pretty small. 1-4 on the glass, none on the coral, a few in the sump. i mean its been so minuscule for the last few months i haven't even done anything about it.
my coralline grows faster than my corals for sure!
when i take off the sump i want to keep the tank hooked up to the doser and the gfo reactor on (to help make it stable!).
did you see the pictures above? i have four acros, one milli, a setosa, and a porites as far as sps goes. all happy, colorful, polyp extension, etc. i fragged one recently and it healed extremely well.
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
here's how much sps I had before I moved and had the one kh swing!:
here are some of my current sps:
my 3/4" setosa nub that has at least an encrusted base!
here are some of my current sps:
my 3/4" setosa nub that has at least an encrusted base!
ihavecrabs
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here's how much sps I had before I moved and had the one kh swing!:
here are some of my current sps:
my 3/4" setosa nub that has at least an encrusted base!
First off, great job with the tank. It looks great.
Have you considered chemical warfare (even at its smallest amounts) could be causing slower growth rates? My guess would be some of the close proximity of corals may be causing some minimal level of chemical release that may be inhibiting the majority of the growth in the tank.
It might be worth running passive carbon in a mesh bag and changing it with weekly 20% water changes. After a month, I'd be interested to see if you have any positive changes.
Good luck either way!
Well sounds like you're on track then... typically SPS frags will encrust before growing out and I don't see much encrusting, also... I just realized you are using black sand... which doesn't give you any buffer capabilities and its extremely difficult to know whats in that sand; I suggest running a magnet to see if anything attaches on the magnet, regardless I'd scrap the black sand for SPS.
From many hours of reading I've always seen people complain about black sand and very slow or no sps growth; black sand doesn't affect LPS/Softies/Macros however, and has iron impurities. SPS corals are much more sensitive especially to magnetic particles - just something to think of.
I find it peculiar that sps has decent polyp extension but its not growing, so its obviously something in the water.
Downsides of black sand which you should be aware of
- really difficult to find out whats in it as it is not crushed coral
- doesn't offer any buffering capabilities like a argonite sand does
- doesn't reflect which can be a issue especially when using leds and sps (leds seem to be very spoty)
- very difficult to keep clean if you have fish in the tank as most particles are light in color
Upsides of black sand
- contrast is awesome
- makes colors pop
- makes fish really stand out (if the tank had any)
The tank looks amazing as is to be honest, love the color contrast, however is it always this dim? my tank is bright as hell with a ATI hybrid 8 T's and 2 LED clusters, my tank looks like yours at dusk/dawn. What camera are you using to snap pics?
For reference I got a piece of setosa which was 1/4 of what you have there and right now (5-6) months later its a bit bigger than a golfball
The reason I was suggesting to try a fast growing weed sps coral is to see it it grows and what rate, you can always sell/give the coral away once it gets too big.
Also what type of flatworms do you have? are they opaque or have a orange hue? by the way some pests are really, really difficult to see in the tank especially AEFW(acropora eating flatworms) however I don't see any bite marks on your corals so I doubt you have AEFW... I still suggest purchasing a bottle of Coral RX and dipping a few sps frags to see what exactly comes off them (also dipping coral should always be done prior introducing new coral, also a QT period is also recommended however its tough for people to have a QT tank specially designed for sps)
From experience I moved all my sps to a 20gallon qt to treat for pests and forgot the doser on over night... Alk shot up to 11 from 6 and let me tell ya I'm still losing SPS 5 months down the road, some SPS recovered, some are still recovering and about 10 or so colonies eventually hit the bucket
My parameters are for a ULNS as I run zeo so my parameters are:
7 - Alk - on hanna
420 - Ca - on RedSea test kit
420 - Potassim - on RedSea test kit
no traces of phosphates on Hanna ULNS
no traces of nitrates on Elos an Salifert kits
1.025 - Salinity - refractometer
1250 - Mg - on RedSea test kit
From many hours of reading I've always seen people complain about black sand and very slow or no sps growth; black sand doesn't affect LPS/Softies/Macros however, and has iron impurities. SPS corals are much more sensitive especially to magnetic particles - just something to think of.
I find it peculiar that sps has decent polyp extension but its not growing, so its obviously something in the water.
Downsides of black sand which you should be aware of
- really difficult to find out whats in it as it is not crushed coral
- doesn't offer any buffering capabilities like a argonite sand does
- doesn't reflect which can be a issue especially when using leds and sps (leds seem to be very spoty)
- very difficult to keep clean if you have fish in the tank as most particles are light in color
Upsides of black sand
- contrast is awesome
- makes colors pop
- makes fish really stand out (if the tank had any)
The tank looks amazing as is to be honest, love the color contrast, however is it always this dim? my tank is bright as hell with a ATI hybrid 8 T's and 2 LED clusters, my tank looks like yours at dusk/dawn. What camera are you using to snap pics?
For reference I got a piece of setosa which was 1/4 of what you have there and right now (5-6) months later its a bit bigger than a golfball
The reason I was suggesting to try a fast growing weed sps coral is to see it it grows and what rate, you can always sell/give the coral away once it gets too big.
Also what type of flatworms do you have? are they opaque or have a orange hue? by the way some pests are really, really difficult to see in the tank especially AEFW(acropora eating flatworms) however I don't see any bite marks on your corals so I doubt you have AEFW... I still suggest purchasing a bottle of Coral RX and dipping a few sps frags to see what exactly comes off them (also dipping coral should always be done prior introducing new coral, also a QT period is also recommended however its tough for people to have a QT tank specially designed for sps)
From experience I moved all my sps to a 20gallon qt to treat for pests and forgot the doser on over night... Alk shot up to 11 from 6 and let me tell ya I'm still losing SPS 5 months down the road, some SPS recovered, some are still recovering and about 10 or so colonies eventually hit the bucket
My parameters are for a ULNS as I run zeo so my parameters are:
7 - Alk - on hanna
420 - Ca - on RedSea test kit
420 - Potassim - on RedSea test kit
no traces of phosphates on Hanna ULNS
no traces of nitrates on Elos an Salifert kits
1.025 - Salinity - refractometer
1250 - Mg - on RedSea test kit
jasonandsarah
Sticks, sticks and more STICKS
Battle corals(Adam) is awesome! He has so many people asking and buying that it's hard to hold frags to grow out and encrust. If you ask him he'll definitely 100% hold your frags to heal up(he's done it for me) but in most cases if a tanks ready for Acro's they don't need as much time to heal as people make it seem(unless there damaged flesh). This is just my opinion witch is just about worthless("besides I'm a Sps addict) lol so take it for what it is
garyd542
New Member
I know this sounds like a simplistic answer but plain old Mrs Wages pickling lime in the top off created the most drastic growth reaction of anything I've ever done. No more 2-part, calcium, ph, kh, carbonate/bi-carbonate, B-ionic, Reef Fusion, Reef-Code A&B, etc. About a teaspoon of Wages in 3 gallons of top off water and done. I do still add a little cheap Kent Iodide (I know it's efficacy is questionable but the softies SEEM to respond) and tried Brightwell Korelle-VM for general vit/min/trace (it really is hard to stop messing with water chemistry isn't it!). That seems to make a difference so I continue to use it for now. When the current bottles of both the iodide and Vm are gone I might not buy more right away and see what happens. Here's a quick full tank shot with phone and a shot of a section from last January. Same ******* lights for same periods, same filtration, same livestock, same water circulation. Only significant difference...lime. For comparison purposes: The birdsnest at the top of the before pic is the one on top of the rock stack on the left side of the tank. The Monti Cap in the before is obvious in the same spot in the after (and there are two more pieces in back of the tank almost as big that were fragged off) the Devil's Hand a bit down from there in the before is directly below the birdsnest. The GSP on the far left in the before is taking over the bottom of the stack on the right on the right.
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rosieosieee
Well-Known Member
most of the pictures are taken in the morning or at night while the lights are ramping up or down, pictures taken with an iPhone 5s.
the flat worms are Convolutriloba retrogemma, and yes I do not believe I have any pests bothering the sps. like I said I never even see these guys on any coral.
interesting thought on the black sand bed! when I go sps dominant if it doesn't grow...oh well I guess. they seem happy and colorful. I need my black sand!
my friend has a bird nest frag for me along with another acro. I'll update if that starts to grow!
