I messed up

Javy · Oct 13, 2017

Hello, I'm still kinda new to the hobby. Last night I changed up my rockscapes and moved around some of my corals. Manly because my Xenia was trying to overtake one of my big rocks. So I took a rock out to place a couple smaller ones in. Really happy with the result. But woke up this morning to find 2 of my clowns dead. They have been super healthy and showed no signs. Did I do something wrong?.

shaggydoo · Oct 13, 2017

Hard to say. Did you do any tests to see what your levels are? Also, was it LR, uncured, or just dead base rock. Could there have been anything on the new rocks you put in that was lethal? Moving rockwork should not hurt anything by itself (unless you drop the rock on a coral like I have).

Shayneoc · Oct 13, 2017

Many reasons why this could of happened. I've had one bad experience doing this and my course of death was that I moved a large piece of rock that was 2" under the sand and it let off some serious ammonia and killed 4 fish. As shaggy said, what was your perimeters before and after if tested?

Humblefish · Oct 13, 2017

This has nothing to do with the death of your clownfish, but xenia can take over your entire tank after awhile.

How long did you have the clowns?

Javy · Oct 13, 2017

I've only ever done strip tests and Amonia drop test. Everything has always been fine. Untill I replaced new rock. Tested again And now my amonia is .50. And I bought live rock from a local fish shop, and droped them into my tank. Currently the only 2 fish I have swimming alive right now is my Valentinie Puffer and a Black Goby. All my coral are fine and are not showing any symptoms of anything. Is it just a freak accident both of my clowns died back to back ?

Erica-Renee · Oct 13, 2017

WOW.

OK first to help you get back on track..

How big is this tank.
How long has it been setup.
Amount of rock/ sand and timeline on setup

TEST Strips are super unreliable..
Please reply back to the above 3 questions to help start a dialog to get you moving in the right direction.
PLEASE PLEASE do not add any more fish to this tank and do a Large water change with RO/DI WATER OR WATER Treated with prime..

Erica Renee

Javy · Oct 13, 2017

My tank is currently 10 gallons. It's been cycled before for 1 month with no fish. And with fish for 2 months. So a total of 3 months running. I have 20 pounds of live carribean sand, and roughly 10 pounds of live rock now.

Katrina71 · Oct 13, 2017

Sorry about your fish

CindyKz · Oct 14, 2017

My guess would be that there was some die off from the live rock you added, and it caused an ammonia spike (essentially, your tank is going through a small, or "mini-cycle"). I'm pretty new to the hobby myself though and I might be off target.

The other possibility is that some sort of disease hitchiked in on the rock.

How do the puffer and the goby look now? in a separate train of thought, I don't think 10 gallons is large enough for a Valentini long term...I can't imagine mine in 10 gallons. Live Aquaria's tank size guidelines are generally trusted.

The cure would be to temporarily remove the new live rock, do a large water change, and add some prime or other ammonia binder. The new live rock needs to be kept in heated, circulating water while it completes it's cycle. This process is sometimes called "curing" although the terms are used loosely and can be misleading. Your ammonia should come down. Get a decent ammonia test - many people like Salifert, or in this case use an Ammonia Badge (made by Seachem). Products like Prime bind with ammonia and render it harmless, but some kits are also unable to detect it or detect erroneous amounts. IDK how the AmmoniaAlert Badge is affected.

@Humblefish ?

Javy · Oct 14, 2017

Okay thank you for your help. And as for the Valentinie he's kinda small right now. And will be buying a 65 gallon here very shortly. He will be moved over. I'm using my 10 gallon as my learning curve before I make large investments.

Humblefish · Oct 14, 2017

CindyKz said:
My guess would be that there was some die off from the live rock you added, and it caused an ammonia spike (essentially, your tank is going through a small, or "mini-cycle"). I'm pretty new to the hobby myself though and I might be off target.

^^ This is the most likely explanation. Since the OP confirmed he got a toxic (0.5 ppm) ammonia reading, that is probably what killed the clowns. I would use an ammonia reducer and/or a poly filter ASAP to keep ammonia under control: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4335

Erica-Renee · Oct 14, 2017

I would take some water to your LFS and have them to test it. Buy a decent test kit so that you can keep up with the water chemistry.If you did have ammonia spike its for sure what killed the fish , some are more prone to go quickly like that then others.

Javy · Oct 14, 2017

Currently I work a job that only allows me to come home late night. I work 14 hours a day. I ordered a advanced coral test kit off of liveaquaria.com had my brother run and grab prim and put a small capfull of prime before I went to work today. Hopefully that calms it down a little. I'm just mainly worried about my coral right now. So far my xenia and torch seems to be doing fine, but my zoas and another, can't seem to remember the name. Are looking a different color. Tonight I will he performing a 20% water change. And maybe another tomarrow morning before work. But tested the Amonia this morning. And still reading .50

CindyKz · Oct 14, 2017

Javy said:
Currently I work a job that only allows me to come home late night. I work 14 hours a day. I ordered a advanced coral test kit off of liveaquaria.com had my brother run and grab prim and put a small capfull of prime before I went to work today. Hopefully that calms it down a little. I'm just mainly worried about my coral right now. So far my xenia and torch seems to be doing fine, but my zoas and another, can't seem to remember the name. Are looking a different color. Tonight I will he performing a 20% water change. And maybe another tomarrow morning before work. But tested the Amonia this morning. And still reading .50

Depending on what kind of test you use, you will still get a positive reading for the ammonia after adding Prime because the Prime doesn't remove the ammonia, it just binds it to another chemical in a way that makes it harmless. It is still there in the water, so many tests still detect it.

Corals are not sensitive to ammonia to my knowledge, but again I'm new too.

savetheocean · Oct 14, 2017

What did they look like? Any odd things about the dead fish?

Javy · Oct 14, 2017

The clowns were a solid white color, the goby that ended up looking like he lost alot of color and "zombiefied". Im now noticing my only fish alive, the valentinie Puffer, rubbing himself on the rocks.

Humblefish · Oct 14, 2017

Javy said:
Im now noticing my only fish alive, the valentinie Puffer, rubbing himself on the rocks.

Is he targeting the gills when he rubs?

He might have Marine Velvet Disease: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Treatment protocol outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499437

Even if you can't source acriflavine or formalin, at least do the 5 min FW dip and begin copper treatment in a QT.

savetheocean · Oct 15, 2017

Javy said:
The clowns were a solid white color, the goby that ended up looking like he lost alot of color and "zombiefied". Im now noticing my only fish alive, the valentinie Puffer, rubbing himself on the rocks.

Any white spots?

Dont freak out, we dont know for sure if it is velvet. Sometimes fish just have an itch (Just like people) and they want to get rid of it. Sometimes I see my tang rub against a rock, never seen any signs of ich or velvet other than that. Just closely watch your fish, sugar like dots all over are a clear sign of velvet.

Humblefish said:
Is he targeting the gills when he rubs?

He might have Marine Velvet Disease: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Treatment protocol outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499437

Even if you can't source acriflavine or formalin, at least do the 5 min FW dip and begin copper treatment in a QT.

Its a Valentinie Puffer (No scales) I have heard mixed thoughts on copper
What do you think?

CindyKz · Oct 15, 2017

Javy said:
The clowns were a solid white color, the goby that ended up looking like he lost alot of color and "zombiefied". Im now noticing my only fish alive, the valentinie Puffer, rubbing himself on the rocks.

Is this "loss of color" a typical description of velvet from an inexperienced person? I had a flame hawk with a similar presentation. JW - would like to recognize it as such next time I see it and treat in time, as I'm sure the OP would as well. @Humblefish