I need the recipe

[ReeferBill]

for success...
Ok, so seeing all of these amazing tanks with amazing LPS makes me want to have something that works. Here is what I want, please let me know what it takes to get it...
I am thinking like 30-45 gallon shallow lookdown tank(something that is long/wide, but only 18" deep)
I really only like chalices, but would put other LPS in there too, like plates and scolys. Just a few simple fish like a tang to control algae.

For this kind of tank, do I need a sump?
Will it get by with no filtration, just water changes weekly?
I was thinking of using a MP 10, but what kind of lighting? I tried LEDs, and they didnt do well with my LPS, so I am thinking a high quality T-5 set-up with lots of blue/purple bulbs.
What would I need to dose daily?
What parameters are important to chalices?

Any help would be awesome, I will post my progress once i get the tank going.
Thanks,
Bill

 

[J062682l]

I wouldn't recomend tangs the tank is too small ,, and the best tanks have sumps! And fiktration. WC alone will not work. That's just my opinion. But if you want a good algae eating fish go with a Blenny

 

[NanaReefer]

You didn't mention if your going to be running a skimmer or not. That alone can make the difference whether or not to go sumpless. Weekly water changes will definitely be a must!
I do agree those tanks being to small for ANY tang.

 

[ReeferBill]

Ok, not asking to get a tang debate going, so please diregard that portion.

 

[Tab28]

Those LPS are low light. I would not be adding alot of t5. Too high of lighting will put an end to a scoly faster than slighting dirty water.

 

[ReeferBill]

If I only have corals in there, what would the skimmer be pulling out? This would be a strictly coral tank, maybe a tiny fish or 2. I was figuring if I had only corals the water changes would replace the nutients in the water for the corals. Like I said, just not sure, so any advice on those that have done this before would be great. I know a sump would be better, to have more water volume, but do I need that much filtration, since there will not be that much adding to the waste?

 

[ReeferBill]

I didnt mean to infer that I am going to put lots of T-5s over the tank, just that I would use lots of blues/purples(Geez you guys are literal today

 

[ReeferBill]

It seems from my research that most people use T-5s for LPS and do very well.

 

[TJ's Reef]

My suggestion would be: 40 Breeder or similar (rimless would look best) with 20L as 3-chamber sump/fuge setup with mid size skimmer and heater 1st chamber, Par30 (LED/CFL) clip on light over small fuge section full of Chaeto (for pod production) then return section with a reliable Eheim pump. I'd still go LED over T5's but need a dimmable/controllable fixture that is a full spectrum running at 25-35% or so is all. MP-10 and a nice furniture grade stand and all is good..... even for a juvenile Yellow or Kole Tang for some time.

Cheers, Todd

 

[Tab28]

If I only have corals in there, what would the skimmer be pulling out? This would be a strictly coral tank, maybe a tiny fish or 2. I was figuring if I had only corals the water changes would replace the nutients in the water for the corals. Like I said, just not sure, so any advice on those that have done this before would be great. I know a sump would be better, to have more water volume, but do I need that much filtration, since there will not be that much adding to the waste?

A sump not only helps with water filtration it is a major contributor to the oxygen exchange. This is needed for just a healthy tank. You will be adding a mp10 but with the LPS you prefer you will be keeping it on the lowest speed in a tank that size. A skimmer is needed to reduce nitrates and phosphates. No only will you have a few fish. They will add to the quality of water as well as the coral feedings.

I have a nano which has no room for a skimmer or sump. It has 2 fish. A blemmy and a dottieback. I have to do water change every week and still can not keep phosphates and nitrates under control. The other side of coin. Part of the enjoyment of my 150 gallon tank is not having to worry about constant water changes to keep those things in check.

 

[ReeferBill]

I didnt know that skimmers pulled out phosphates. I could do a hang on back skimmer or something too. Wouldnt that provide enough oxegen for a tank?
While I do agree that a sump helps a tank, from hiding all the extra stuff, to giving more water volume, I was wondering if anyone has had success with sumpless LPS tank. You are right, MP 10 is way too much for these corals.

AS for the LEDs, I had an LED nano with dimmables down to 18%, and it still burned the LPS. Just too much light and too intense I think. T-5 is the way to go, from what I have seen long term. Seems to get the best colors out of the corals.

 

[Tab28]

A skimmer would help with the oxygen. I am sure someone must have tried a sumpless reef tank. I should correct my nano has no separate sump but does have a small sump area in the back. Just enough room for a few sponges and baffles. So technically it would classify as a sump at the minimum level.

I am with you on the t5. I had LED and my sps loved it but my lps did not. My chalices had better color with t5. Maybe they were just happier with them.

 

[TJ's Reef]

I ran successful (mainly Softy LPS) Reeftanks for years in the 80's without sumps or skimmers. Reverse flow under gravel filters with first generation Coast-to-Coast (2" PVC with a thousand saw cuts/slits) and a window box algae scrubber. I have LPS and have seen dozens of LPS systems under LED's all doing great, it's not the LED's that are the problem. I've been keeping Reeftanks since 1982 and from my experience and IMHO there is many many ways to be successful in this hobby and mostly has to do with husbandry practices not products or brands. In all these years have seen so many Flavor-of-the-Months its not funny, some of the 'Must Haves' of yesterday and today were/are a joke or Snake Oil. Experience is and always will be heads above the latest gadgets in keeping a healthy system. The advent or usage of Sumps/fuges, modern Skimmers, Prop style Powerheads and LED's have become game changers in initiating the hobbies Noobs but only experience earned or learned from others will reward you long term. Without understanding basic biology and physics it will be a frustrating uphill battle. Patience is not easy today but the rewards are certainly there in this hobby.
So in wrapping up my long winded speech, Research-Learn-Have Patience and you will end up with an 'LPS Wonderland' you'll be proud of and fully understand.

Cheers, Todd

 

[ReeferBill]

I ran successful (mainly Softy LPS) Reeftanks for years in the 80's without sumps or skimmers. Reverse flow under gravel filters with first generation Coast-to-Coast (2" PVC with a thousand saw cuts/slits) and a window box algae scrubber. I have LPS and have seen dozens of LPS systems under LED's all doing great, it's not the LED's that are the problem. I've been keeping Reeftanks since 1982 and from my experience and IMHO there is many many ways to be successful in this hobby and mostly has to do with husbandry practices not products or brands. In all these years have seen so many Flavor-of-the-Months its not funny, some of the 'Must Haves' of yesterday and today were/are a joke or Snake Oil. Experience is and always will be heads above the latest gadgets in keeping a healthy system. The advent or usage of Sumps/fuges, modern Skimmers, Prop style Powerheads and LED's have become game changers in initiating the hobbies Noobs but only experience earned or learned from others will reward you long term. Without understanding basic biology and physics it will be a frustrating uphill battle. Patience is not easy today but the rewards are certainly there in this hobby.
So in wrapping up my long winded speech, Research-Learn-Have Patience and you will end up with an 'LPS Wonderland' you'll be proud of and fully understand.

Cheers, Todd

While I agree with most everything you said(including husbandry being an important aspect of reefkeeping, I have not seen many LED/LPS tanks that have done well long term. In looking through this website, and other reef sites, it seems like the guys that really succeed in LPS have switched to high end models of LEDs, then switch back because of the bleaching, or color changes from them. I am guessing that one CAN have success with LEDs, but does it give the best spectrum for the LPS to color up the best....and when spending $300 on a quarter sized piece, you want all those colors
Biology is important as well, having the right parameters is critical to keeping corals healthy. I was just wondering if the tank only had corals, would it need that much filtration. I know corals give off waste, but not at the rate that fish do, so I wasnt sure.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[CountrySideCoral]

LPS is my coral of choice along with zoas/palys. I have always run T5 and had great results. I started a frag tank for my LPS with an LED light( ecoxitic panorama 120w). I nearly lost all of my coral frags. They wouldn't open fully under LEDs many lost color and polyp extension. Keep in mind it was stand alone with a protein skimmer and was not tied into my main system. To stop the tank from crashing I drained the system into a brute garbage can drilled the tank and plumbed it into my 65 display system. I traded my LEDs for a T5 fixture and two buckets of Red Sea coral pro and couldn't been happier. The 65 is thriving, the frag tank has pulled a 180 from its near crash.

I have seen other friends give up LEDs because the LEDs are not keeping LPS happy. Can LEDs keep a LPS tank going I'm sure someone has but I agree with the majority in that T5s definitely seem to be perfect for LPS just like SPS thrive under halides, and softies are growing machines under PC and T12/8.

Just my two cents.

 

[NanaReefer]

LPS poop!! Especially if they are fed on a regular bases. All corals expel waste. Without filtration of some kind where is that waste to go? Protein floats, biggest reason for an over flow or surface skimmer.

 

[ReeferBill]

I agree about the LEDs. I was hoping more people would comment on their successes or failures to a system like this. Last thing I want is to have a couple grand in corals in a tank and then it crashes.

LPS is my coral of choice along with zoas/palys. I have always run T5 and had great results. I started a frag tank for my LPS with an LED light( ecoxitic panorama 120w). I nearly lost all of my coral frags. They wouldn't open fully under LEDs many lost color and polyp extension. Keep in mind it was stand alone with a protein skimmer and was not tied into my main system. To stop the tank from crashing I drained the system into a brute garbage can drilled the tank and plumbed it into my 65 display system. I traded my LEDs for a T5 fixture and two buckets of Red Sea coral pro and couldn't been happier. The 65 is thriving, the frag tank has pulled a 180 from its near crash.

I have seen other friends give up LEDs because the LEDs are not keeping LPS happy. Can LEDs keep a LPS tank going I'm sure someone has but I agree with the majority in that T5s definitely seem to be perfect for LPS just like SPS thrive under halides, and softies are growing machines under PC and T12/8.

Just my two cents.

 

[ReeferBill]

Like I said, I would do weekly water changes. Do LPS expel that much waste on a weekly basis? I guess I should clarify that I will have probably about 6-8 quarter sized chalices in there, and might move to about 10-15, but all very small. Does that change your opinion? Thank you for the advice, I apprecaite the feedback. Just want to do this right, but want it to be as minimal as possible.
Thanks

LPS poop!! Especially if they are fed on a regular bases. All corals expel waste. Without filtration of some kind where is that waste to go? Protein floats, biggest reason for an over flow or surface skimmer.

 

[Tab28]

I agree about the LEDs. I was hoping more people would comment on their successes or failures to a system like this. Last thing I want is to have a couple grand in corals in a tank and then it crashes.

I know of success stories. I know of more that were not. When you hear of a horror story there are always hundreds of possible things that went wrong. From unit, bulbs, intensity, brand, color spectrum the list goes on. Why add one more complication to reef keeping. Old school t5 and mh there are no operating classes needed. Buy it plug it in. Every year high end led units have improvements, why was the unit i paid $600 for need improvements.

 

[Railcar79]

I will just say this on the topic, lps love dirty water. Chalices have more than doubled in size in a sump, full of detritus, with only 2 10,000k bulbs at 18 inches. This is lps not SPS. Lps need dirty water.