I need the recipe

[ReeferBill]

I know of success stories. I know of more that were not. When you hear of a horror story there are always hundreds of possible things that went wrong. From unit, bulbs, intensity, brand, color spectrum the list goes on. Why add one more complication to reef keeping. Old school t5 and mh there are no operating classes needed. Buy it plug it in. Every year high end led units have improvements, why was the unit i paid $600 for need improvements.

Agreed. When I tried the LEDs, I bought the best, with dimmers, and all color spectrums, and at 18% they still burned corals. That is why I am a T-5 guy all the way. Tried and true, and(as you said), no messing around hoping and praying to get the right spectrum for the corals. It seems like LEDs might be a fad, but I am sure they will get better. For me, I stick with what works

 

[ReeferBill]

Railcar, thank you for the response. I was under the same school of thought. I have had chalices that loved the dirty water and grew well, where they would die in my brothers super clean system. This is why I was asking about needing a skimmer or much of anything for filtration other than water changes to replace the nutrients. I am hoping to hear from lots of people on this, because I dont want to keep a dirty tank, and crash the corals, but I thought they liked the dirty water. Thanks for the response

 

[Tab28]

I will just say this on the topic, lps love dirty water. Chalices have more than doubled in size in a sump, full of detritus, with only 2 10,000k bulbs at 18 inches. This is lps not SPS. Lps need dirty water.

But isnt the sump the filter. You are not placing them in the first sump chamber.

I have been to many coral shows and you can tell the stands that have no water filtering system by the second day.

 

[benny z]

I will just say this on the topic, lps love dirty water. Chalices have more than doubled in size in a sump, full of detritus, with only 2 10,000k bulbs at 18 inches. This is lps not SPS. Lps need dirty water.

have you ever seen freshly collected acan colonies? covered in detritus. COVERED. some of the most stunning rainbow acans were completely burried in crap. yes, they like to eat! but all that crap on top of them definitely blocks light. low light, lots of food = happy lps.

it's too easy to blame leds. as someone else mentioned, finding the right blend of spectrum and intensity comes down to trial and error, and as with any other new technology, products are constantly changing based on further research and feedback.

as to the op's question. agree that a rimless shallow lookdown is sweet. try something like a 24" x 48" x 12" with 4 24" T5 bulbs hanging pretty high above just one end. 3 blue+ and 1 figi purple. then supplement with 450nm leds dimmed to a level that they don't blast your corals. you'll have bright light over one end and enough light spill to keep low/dim light rainbows on the other end. tunze makes a line of in-tank skimmers that would be good for this tank w/ no sump. and yes, i think you can do it sumpless. water topoff will be tedious if you don't automate it. and i would wall off the back 4" or so for an overflow/return pump for no other reason than to skim the water surface or you'll have a funky film on the top.

 

[ReeferBill]

Yeah, I hate the trial and error part. If I spend hundreds, I want to plug and play. Not worth the cost savings on bulbs to burn corals and make errors.(to me). My opinion rests on t-5 for LPS. They just work, and dont require an advanced degree in optics to be successful.
I do agree though that LPS like dirt. Do you think a tank can get by on filterless, or HOB filter?

 

[benny z]

liverock, sand, and water movement for biological filtration.

skimmer, filter floss (if you can work this into the overflow), regularly blowing detritis off of the rocks, and siphoning for mechanical filtration.

kiss = keep it simple stupid

i'm currently experimenting with a refined led look over my nano. the leds that came from the manufacturer in the hood definitely aren't lps-appropriate in intensity or spectrum. i've created a new blend of led components over this tank to achieve what i hope to be a picky lps-sustaining blend. so far i'm happy. photos below taken with the same camera white balance and no other post processing, just to show the difference in spectrum and intensity.

a couple of the rainbow acans in this tank for trial:

it's a blend of very specific-binned leds and dimmable drivers.

 

[Railcar79]

I run a sump, but I have fish. I know guys that run just a hob Skimmer, some that don't run anything. For me, minimum carbon reactor, or some kind of carbon filtration would be my recommendation. My lps do well in my tank, stocked with a tang, golden rabbit, 3 chromis, pair clowns, flame, and a mandarin with T5 lights, 2 800 GPH powerheads and a mag 7 return on a 72 bow. I run chemipure elite or purigen and pellets with a Skimmer, more for cyano than anything.

 

[Tab28]

I run a sump, but I have fish. I know guys that run just a hob Skimmer, some that don't run anything. For me, minimum carbon reactor, or some kind of carbon filtration would be my recommendation. My lps do well in my tank, stocked with a tang, golden rabbit, 3 chromis, pair clowns, flame, and a mandarin with T5 lights, 2 800 GPH powerheads and a mag 7 return on a 72 bow. I run chemipure elite or purigen and pellets with a Skimmer, more for cyano than anything.

Yes i agree he may not need a complex filter, some type of filtering should be used. Either hob, skimmer or reactor for a minimal type. But they are all still filters of a type. Even a sponge is still a filter. LPS do prefer "dirty" water but not unfiltered water. Even what constitutes dirty water in the ocean is actually clean water with some sediment. The water is still filtered 24/7. A constant oxygenation and filtering keeps water healthy. Why spends hundreds of dollars on chalices just to have a possible crash. When a simple filter could have prevented it.

 

[ReeferBill]

How long has that been running?

liverock, sand, and water movement for biological filtration.

skimmer, filter floss (if you can work this into the overflow), regularly blowing detritis off of the rocks, and siphoning for mechanical filtration.

kiss = keep it simple stupid

i'm currently experimenting with a refined led look over my nano. the leds that came from the manufacturer in the hood definitely aren't lps-appropriate in intensity or spectrum. i've created a new blend of led components over this tank to achieve what i hope to be a picky lps-sustaining blend. so far i'm happy. photos below taken with the same camera white balance and no other post processing, just to show the difference in spectrum and intensity.

a couple of the rainbow acans in this tank for trial:

it's a blend of very specific-binned leds and dimmable drivers.

 

[ReeferBill]

I totally agree. I really want to do whats best for the tank, which is why I am asking. I would hate to crash my tank because I skipped a step. But I also dont want to have this over equipped tank for chalices that dont need it. I would definately use a filter, maybe a canister filter, and possibly a HOB skimmer. I was thinking of making a sump, but then my simple set-up has become much more complex.

Yes i agree he may not need a complex filter, some type of filtering should be used. Either hob, skimmer or reactor for a minimal type. But they are all still filters of a type. Even a sponge is still a filter. LPS do prefer "dirty" water but not unfiltered water. Even what constitutes dirty water in the ocean is actually clean water with some sediment. The water is still filtered 24/7. A constant oxygenation and filtering keeps water healthy. Why spends hundreds of dollars on chalices just to have a possible crash. When a simple filter could have prevented it.

 

[Tab28]

I totally agree. I really want to do whats best for the tank, which is why I am asking. I would hate to crash my tank because I skipped a step. But I also dont want to have this over equipped tank for chalices that dont need it. I would definately use a filter, maybe a canister filter, and possibly a HOB skimmer. I was thinking of making a sump, but then my simple set-up has become much more complex.

You can probably get away with a good hob or some sort of simple filtering system. A sump is good for expandability as well as hiding on the things we use, but not a one size fits all. On a purity scale you would not need it sps quality but you want better than kenya tree quality. Sediment will accumulate and water changes will only get a portion. Can only siphon so close to sand bed.

 

[benny z]

How long has that been running?

the tank itself about 2 years i think...hence the mature sandbed and back wall. but i recently removed all the rock and started over.

 

[ReeferBill]

Sorry, I meant, how long have the lights been running?

the tank itself about 2 years i think...hence the mature sandbed and back wall. but i recently removed all the rock and started over.

 

[ReeferBill]

I was thinking of doing a nano style because it has the pseudo sump, but I want something that is much more shallow and longer than the average nano. I love sumps, just hate the extra plumbing and everything that goes along with them.

You can probably get away with a good hob or some sort of simple filtering system. A sump is good for expandability as well as hiding on the things we use, but not a one size fits all. On a purity scale you would not need it sps quality but you want better than kenya tree quality. Sediment will accumulate and water changes will only get a portion. Can only siphon so close to sand bed.

 

[benny z]

Sorry, I meant, how long have the lights been running?

5 days.

like i said, it's an experiment. i was an early adopter of leds for supplementation (remember powerbrites?) and have experienced my own encounters with bleaching. the led nano pictured i bought to try as my first led-only tank and the softies and montis in it did very well for a long time. i was just never able to keep lower light lps with success. some euphyllia even liked it - some didn't. there was no dimming control and the amount of terrible poor spectrum chinese white leds in the hood made for a really bad look, and too much light for a lot of lps.

by switching to the new led configuration i have a very specific custom blend of blue & violet & white higher end leds and can dim them to create a look that is very pleasing to my eyes. it's pretty dim the way i have it currently set, but that is intentional for now.

also, the three rainbow acan frags i put in this tank are now at the back corner, tucked under an overhang and are receiving mostly indirect light. you can see them in the photo below.

 

[ReeferBill]

Yeah, I experimented with the dimmable, and different colors, and my LPS looked good for a few months, then just slowly changed, then bleached. Took a long time, but no matter what I did, they lost color and looked worse. It could have been some levels off in the tank, but seemed coincidental that it happened with the new lights. I also tried the technique of putting the corals in the corners to avoid the light, but then I asked myself why I was hiding these amazing corals. I want to put them right in the front because they are beautiful(actually I think my mom asked me why I was hiding such pretty corals). That is why I am moving back to the t-5s. Just easier and then I dont worry. Just my thoughts though. Your tank does look really nice, and I always loved the look of the LEDs, love the shimmer.

5 days.

like i said, it's an experiment. i was an early adopter of leds for supplementation (remember powerbrites?) and have experienced my own encounters with bleaching. the led nano pictured i bought to try as my first led-only tank and the softies and montis in it did very well for a long time. i was just never able to keep lower light lps with success. some euphyllia even liked it - some didn't. there was no dimming control and the amount of terrible poor spectrum chinese white leds in the hood made for a really bad look, and too much light for a lot of lps.

by switching to the new led configuration i have a very specific custom blend of blue & violet & white higher end leds and can dim them to create a look that is very pleasing to my eyes. it's pretty dim the way i have it currently set, but that is intentional for now.

also, the three rainbow acan frags i put in this tank are now at the back corner, tucked under an overhang and are receiving mostly indirect light. you can see them in the photo below.

 

[benny z]

understandable. i'm working within the constraints of this nano. it's only 18" either direction, so 24" t5 would overhang and i can't have that where this tank is located (in our family room). t5 (dim) with blue led supplementation (also dim) is definitely my favorite look for lps.

also, the corner where those acans are tucked is up against a loveseat...it's actually a good place for them for viewing. but i totally understand your arguement.

 

[benny z]

*one more thing...

i had a cornbred trash mummy eye chalice that absolutely loved the bright light of the leds before i changed them. not all chalice are low light seeking. the mummy eye never faded/bleached/looked like it was suffering - in fact it was exactly the opposite. grew quickly and had the most electricfying green/orange color in the tank.

 

[ReeferBill]

I hear you bro. I had the same problem with my nano, thats why I got the LEDs. Sounds like the acans are right in viewing area though

 

[ReeferBill]

Good to know, I never tried that chalice.

*one more thing...

i had a cornbred trash mummy eye chalice that absolutely loved the bright light of the leds before i changed them. not all chalice are low light seeking. the mummy eye never faded/bleached/looked like it was suffering - in fact it was exactly the opposite. grew quickly and had the most electricfying green/orange color in the tank.