I stopped equalising water for fish.

[nuxx Verified Sponsor]

I've never lost a fish during acclimation and have done everything from floating (when I first started) and then drip, etc...

Eric Cohen?

 

[Crabby48]

Nope. Is osmotic shock a real thing for fish?

Salinity is a problem with some fish. With wrasse I will only raise 1-2 points in 24 hours. I match a qt or holding tank to bag water salinity then temp acclimate the drop in tank.

 

[brandon429]

In all fairness his title says I stopped...vs we/you should stop. its a fair inspection of options for sure, I just wanted to shoot it down heh. all in good fair reefing jest but Atoll needs to narrow the list


we know this likely works for bulk-made petshop ocellaris clowns, maybe damsels / tougher fish


but does it apply to 100% of fish species Atoll? are readers supposed to not try and instate what does work for you, in their new dry rock reefs with bright harsh hospital lighting, scummed up water because they followed the 2 ppm must-dose ammonia rule? can't those factors which your tank will never see combine with osmotic stress to sometimes kill fish, and mask it as a tank cycle issue/the bane of my existence?


I want folks acclimating safely every time, it's the only way we can eliminate false cycling consequence fear.

from dealing solely in other people's reefs/cycles, I'm 100% sure that's the case. osmotic shock alone probably doesn't kill many fish, and it never will in yours or Pauls pro tanks


in richard reef's new white rock 12 gallon biocube completely jacked in dinos and running since day 1 the ideal blast par he read online, from a pro reef tank, + skipping all disease preps for this fish (again, not required for Atoll I agree) and this white rock reef is fed only pellets, scantily since they're trying to starve dinos, AND there are no hiding spots in the new white reef (Atoll, your tank has none of these issues, wrong context for blanket recommends) then we add in osmotic shock...this kills fish simple as that. I'm not being mean to anyone, I'm stating fact I uncover a lot nowadays.

 

[Tamberav]

I think this is a great answer and reflects well for delicate fresh water fishes. I think the salt water fishes are ready-built to handle osmotic stress just to live in seawater [email protected]. I have watched many shipment of saltwater fishes floated for temperature and then their bags were sliced open over a net and the fish gets plopped into a commercial tank @1.026. Deaths from shipping stress & complications may occur but the salinity/mixing and drip acclimation did not prevent those losses.

I don't want to be part of a dangerous thread. Shipping losses are a good reason to stop our hobby; How can we support the death of a fish, invert, etc, due to shipping? "Leave it in the sea" (isn't an option for me and my Aquarium).

My LFS gets fish that come in at 1.018 but their tanks are around 1.023-1.026. They don’t drip the 50 fish they get. They slice the sides of the bag open and float them in the sliced open bag then release some short time after.

So I guess you could say there is some acclimation since the tank water mixes with the sliced open bag water but it happens quickly and not slowly like a drip.

 

[brandon429]

Since this thread is allowed to run not closed down, I request for my "why you should never dose 2 ppm to a reef cycle" thread to be unblocked. don't squelch science preferentially, @Peace River

we had every right to inspect that claim, especially since it's catching on by the gatekeepers finally.

* I realize it won't be unblocked its just fair irony to point out. I have no basis to make a request/aware lol.


this thread goes against very specific recommends from our own fish care board, its controversial for that reason.

neither thread is dangerous, neither should be closed. angry posters who show up to wreck threads until their closed needed regulation.

I'm not angry at all, Atoll's tank is nothing like 99% of his reader's tanks, he's not even mad I pointed that out.

 

[Tamberav]

I'm against bag dripping for sure.


I'm for acclimation however, since I'm seeing fish die in our cycling posts from the acclimation jump (on cue, masses scream out: Its ammonia! the display wasn't cycled!)


I'm for acclimation between .017 holding water and .024 reef water by methods not involved in bag dripping or floating. get creative. for initial stocking/first fish/we can have the new cyclers simply bring down their ready tank to receive the .017 fish then bring it back up before corals, and quit buying fish from that source so that round two inputs/disease vectors he he aren't salinity shocked.

I specifically think that since Atoll does not run fish disease forums, nor have any cycling threads for new tank startups he runs, it's very very very easy to just state to everyone simply do not acclimate. seems good on paper anyway/his reef is about as pro as it can get after all.

99% of the people reading this advise aren't reefing in a +20 year old, twenty thousand dollar sps reef where the keeper is as nuanced in the game as bob ross was with a common paintbrush


give advice that matches the context your readers see

Ok so let’s say fish are dying when added to new tanks when not acclimated but not dying when added to old tanks by many of us here.

So why would that be?

 

[Eric Cohen]

I've never lost a fish during acclimation and have done everything from floating (when I first started) and then drip, etc...

Eric Cohen?

No drip! Air stones are our friends! More important to acclimate for salinity then ph is what I’ve really come to notice. Temp is gonna come up with a float or heater but that’s number two on the list.
Using some Methalyne blue helps fish greatly. Neutralizing ammonia is also a great benefit and easy to do with a few drops.
We see more and more companies warn against drip acclimation and I would agree.
Happy New Year Everyone!!!

 

[brandon429]

@Tamberav it would be he needs to state:



when dealing with an established reef tank, full of hiding spots, fed like a pro from the seafood aisle of a grocery store, lit appropriately to the age of tank and hiding spots, rocks covered in coralline and benthic growths that cause direct calm in fish visually and by association, with such ammonia command it'll never be a factor, with natural disease suppression assisted by the system of such age and live rock content, conspecifics present and behavioral interactions already factored, you can plop fish in.



By leaving out context, any sort of acknowledgement such as ' does this apply to newly cycled white rock setups' and by leaving out disease preps required before plopping in fish even to those system, this method(s) kills fish for others.


but never for Atoll.

to leave out context is to rob science.

 

[brandon429]

I liked Eric's post here: More important to acclimate for salinity then ph is what I’ve really come to notice

 

[Tamberav]

@Tamberav it would be he needs to state:



when dealing with an established reef tank, full of hiding spots, fed like a pro from the seafood aisle of a grocery store, lit appropriately to the age of tank and hiding spots, rocks covered in coralline and benthic growths that cause direct calm in fish visually and by association, with such ammonia command it'll never be a factor, with natural disease suppression assisted by the system of such age and live rock content, conspecifics present and behavioral interactions already factored, you can plop fish in.



By leaving out context, any sort of acknowledgement such as ' does this apply to newly cycled white rock setups' and by leaving out disease preps required before plopping in fish even to those system, this method(s) kills fish for others.


but never for Atoll.

to leave out context is to rob science.

Yes I think mature system with microfauna helps with stress.

I also think beginners do not have the experience to pick up on subtle signs of disease or deformities (since aquacultured clownfish are popular first fish).

 

[liddojunior]

I think it depends on source the most. And there is a good reason why shops tell you their water parameter ranges. If you are shopping online you can compare and be ready before hand to make sure your QT water is atleast comparable.

If shipped, it’s honestly better to plop and drop. The water in the shipping bag is not good and it’s better to just get it in new water asap. There is benefit to getting them into new water that outweighs the negatives. They are already stressed in the bag.

If you drove to an LFS, and drove back home. The bag water is still good, drip acclimate should be done. Why increase their stress?

Fish die from stress.The reason to quarantine is that these fish could very well have come in healthy, but stress can tip them over and they get sick. I don’t think the issue here is shock but lower the chance for the livestock to handle illness.

The LFS is also 10000% a different situation. They have longer shipment times, it’s more likely that shipment was in transit for 3 days vs overnight to you. LFS have limited resources and time. For things that are kept in high numbers, the amount of waste in the bag is high. The LFS are playing the game of odds. They are going to have loses and they need to reduce their losses. Weak stressed fish/corals are not going to survive in an LFS and a trying to add drip protocol honestly won’t change that. Basically LFS and home hobbyist best practices are going to be different.
Over all. The odds are with some exceptions, no one in the supply chain really put the time to care for each individual fish/inverts that end up in your tank. And it’s your responsibility to do what’s best for the livestock.

 

[Peace River]

Since this thread is allowed to run not closed down, I request for my "why you should never dose 2 ppm to a reef cycle" thread to be unblocked. don't squelch science preferentially, @Peace River

we had every right to inspect that claim, especially since it's catching on by the gatekeepers finally.

* I realize it won't be unblocked its just fair irony to point out. I have no basis to make a request/aware lol.


this thread goes against very specific recommends from our own fish care board, its controversial for that reason.

neither thread is dangerous, neither should be closed. angry posters who show up to wreck threads until their closed needed regulation.

I'm not angry at all, Atoll's tank is nothing like 99% of his reader's tanks, he's not even mad I pointed that out.

Threads are closed because of repeated terms of service violations, not because anyone disagrees with the content of posts. We fully support the exchange of ideas, opinions, and discussions related to the science of reefing. What is not acceptable is being unkind or adding comments that do not align with the terms of service. Restated in another way, if someone is rude - even though they may be right - that is not okay. While we don't always get it right, we do our best to create a positive place for the community. If there are any questions, feel free to reach out to me, or any of the staff, via PM for questions or for clarification.

 

[brandon429]

Sounds good, thank you for responding.

 

[BetterJake]

Two critical things to match. Salinity and Temp.

 

[brandon429]

The only factors I've ever tested in 17 years on this current pico is salinity and temp, I plan to test nothing else, ever.

In accordance with my diatribe on what works for others, any post I've made on forums says to quit testing/ guessing via non digital kits/ and instead give me six months with the reef remotely with them only verifying temp and salinity and we focus on feed+ water change CPR to fix literally every problem in nano reefing.


I know there's validity in accurately testing for and responding to params, we just don't need it in my work threads.

 

[LaloJ]

I acclimated drip fish for years, and stopped when I read a thread about ammonia toxicity in transport bags when fish are shipped, however I never lost fish to drip, I've always been very meticulous (or over the top), and I wouldn't get off the fish when it was acclimating, I never left the fish dripping for more than half an hour but I could see it was stressed so I just stopped. Stress is the fish's worst enemy IMO, it's a driver of diseases and damage that the fish does not need, so treat it well.

 

[Solga]

Float for temp, empty water into a container while netting the fish, and straight to the tank.
That's how I have acclimated for 30+ years, whether fresh or saltwater. I can say that the death rate due to acclimation, is zero for me.
The only exception to that, for me, is feeder fish to predator fish, and that's another topic for another thread.

 

[trainbob]

I drip acclimate my fish until the water the fish is in match my quarantine tank in temperature and salinity. What I do is pour the fish and water from the bag into a small bucket with a heater and air stone. Also I only buy from the two LFS by me. Unfortunately they keep their salinity differently then my tank

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Just leaving this here.

Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth

OK, I know that's a provocative title, but hear me out. From many, many discussions I have had with reefers over the past 25 years, it is clear to me that many folks easily accept ideas that mesh with their experience, and strongly reject those that do not. Unfortunately, this reliance on...

www.reef2reef.com

I think it applies.

 

[Tamberav]

My copperband came in at 1.006 salinity (which is below the safe level for hypo) and didn't die or even seem to care lol

They accidently left the RO running in the water used to bag for shipping. It went from 1.020's to 1.006 in one go and then sent overnight. When it arrived I put it in 1.009 immediately without acclimation just to get it up to the bare minimum of hypo but the fact is that fish handled it all like a champ, ate day 1.

I know fish can go down easier but that is still an extreme example at a level that is not supposed to be safe. I was surprised by this fishes tolerance.