I think I have too much bacteria?

[Diznaster]

My NO3 and PO4 are constantly at zero. I just checked them again and I haven't done a water change in a month (aside from minor top off after cleaning). I was doing them more frequent but decided to try less to increase nutrients. Tank is 4 months old, 90gal with 40gal sump. 80lbs reef saver rock, 2 marinepure 4"x 8" ceramic media blocks in sump. Plenty of skimmer capacity. Fish load; 2 Clowns, 2 Pajama Cardinals, 1 Diamond Goby, 1 Fairy Wrasse, 1 Kole Tang. No Corals yet. I have been cleaning diatoms off everything for months (the Tang has taken a load off me on the rock and the Goby helps a bit with the sand). The water is often cloudy and sometimes stinks. I get a light slimy scum on top of the low flow sump water sometimes. If I turn off my return pump and then back on it spits a bunch of white flakes that seem to be bacteria. I am considering temporarily adding a stand alone UV like the Green Killing Machine. I don't want to run UV forever. Anyone see any harm in trying this? Any other ideas of what my problem might be?

 

[ZoWhat]

Your NO3 PO4 are 0...... what are you using to arrive at these #s ??

 

[KrisReef]

How does the tank water get into the sump? Skimmer capacity only impacts water that goes through the skimmer, right?
Did you rinse your sand until it ran clear before you put it in the tank?

 

[Diznaster]

Your NO3 PO4 are 0...... what are you using to arrive at these #s ??

Red Sea Pro test kit. When my tank was early in the cycle it showed higher levels, but has been zero or barely detectable for a long time.

How does the tank water get into the sump? Skimmer capacity only impacts water that goes through the skimmer, right?
Did you rinse your sand until it ran clear before you put it in the tank?

Drilled overflow into sump. I can get an estimated 800gph thru skimmer, I have an estimated 1000gph thru sump (so most of flow thru sump is skimmed).
No I did not rinse caribsea sand, instructions said not to. I have however vacuumed the heck out of it regularly using a canister filter vac unit I made.

 

[KrisReef]

Check this thread out:
The official Sand rinse thread (aka one against many)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...-one-against-many.230281/page-11#post-4552119

 

[Gareth elliott]

How long has the tank been up? And how quickly after each fish was the next one added?

The cloudy water does sound like a bacteria bloom but i dont think your tank has reached equilibrium yet. Hence you are getting fits and starts of different populations trying to use up the nutrient loads in the tank.

I would not add any live stock for awhile and increase your water change schedule.
By chance are you still testing for ammonia? Might help to test at different times of the day.

 

[Lonely reefer's]

Everything you started sound normal to me
The water shouldn’t be clouded
No needed uv,give the tank some more time
Maybe reduce the lights by a few hrs

 

[Mark Gray]

Do you h as very corals if you do what kind I just started my 90 also my nitrate is also very low:mad: I do not have a PO3 test yet but I have had to dose nitrates and u am feeding a ton. I have a fuge that's where my nutrients are going probably start dosing Triton this week

 

[Sherman]

Look like your sand is the culprit

 

[Mark Gray]

Look like your sand is the culprit

Why I don't understand I never rinse mine

 

[Diznaster]

I read thru some of the sand rinse thread and it really did not seem to explain or help solve my problem. It seems that is trying to control 2 things; Silt and Detritus buildup. I don't think either of these things are my problem, I have a large canister filter with polishing filters that I use to vacuum my sand.

I have however vacuumed the heck out of it regularly using a canister filter vac unit I made

I don't see much difference between weekly cleaning with my vacuum setup and the disassembling the reef a in jar from the thread and power flushing the sand every three months. Aside from a massive PITA sucking out the sand from a tank that is 100x larger every quarter year. I don't have a DSB like the reef in a jar either and my Goby doesn't let it accumulate detritus. He is a whirling dervish of sandscape constructions.

I didn't get an answer to my question about any harm in trying a UV unit. So I picked up a cheap 24W Green Killing Machine and put it in my sump eight hours ago. The water is already much improved in clarity and I don't smell anything stinky anymore if I stick my head under the hood and take a big sniff. So probably bacteria in the water column was my problem, something is causing this and I need to figure that out eventually. Maybe it will balance in time, maybe the bacteria in the water column is taking the fish waste up and multiplying before the bacteria on the rock can do it. I do test NH3/NH4 and NO2 for a few days after adding a bio load or major disruptive cleaning and I have not seen indication of any mini cycles.

I don't want to run the UV forever and will experiment with turning it off soon. Based on what I have seen over the last few hours, I'm glad I have it and it might come in handy down the road even if I only use rarely.

 

[KMKoolreefs]

What are you feeding? I find that frozen food tends to bring on blooms of bacteria and other nuisance organisms in an imbalanced system much more than dry food.
As for your tank setup I recommend introducing mature liverock with a great variety of organisms and cutting down on maintenance a bit. This way you could fill a variety of niches the bacteria and diatoms currently hold with other more desirable or suitable organisms. This is a natural and effective strategy, but takes a long time and patience. I’ve done this strategy with my developing 90 reef by adding livestock from all the coral/invert systems at my lfs that I work at. I’ve had many kinds of blooms from bacteria to green turf algae and even to sponges but my tank now is pretty much as steady as can be. My liverock now is covered in sponge, calcerous algae, tunicates and other cool inverts (aside from coral). I’d definitely recommend setting up a Refugium in that sump for stabilizing nutrient levels in the tank, especially if you want corals. Growing Macroalgae in my tank pulled me out of my last algal bloom and nitrate spike.

As for uv I think it’s a good way to control the bacteria temporarily

 

[mcarroll]

The stink and the brown coating may have been dinoflagellates — those are common under your conditions with dead rock and no nutrients. activated carbon would work instead of UV for on the smell. But the UV is going to be good at controlling the dinos themselves in most cases.

I would suggest eliminating any/all the extra filtration you have aside from your protein skimmer. (bio-blocks, etc)

If you do that and still fail ro see an uptick in your nutrient levels, then you may want to consider dosing some nitrates and phosphates – both are going to be necessary for your dead rock to "get live".

 

[MSOEME2009]

Neophos and stump remover. I’m in the same boat, and use the 24W. However I’m battling cyano from adding PO4 and had to drop the lighting on the DT and am currently adding H2O2. My chaeto is getting brittle because of the lack of nutrients.

Contemplating removing some marine pure blocks.

Everything looks good now thought and am adding more coral tomorrow.

 

[Seminoles76]

Based on your description I would say bacteria bloom and I would say not out of the ordinary at all for a dry rock setup with a fish loaf at 4 months. Like you stated the tank is just trying for equilibrium.

I would pull the marine pure blocks before I started dosing 3 and 4. I would pull one out. ....wait a week or two and then check levels. If still zero pull the other one. The other option is to feed more if your feeding lightly at this time.

I would also pull the canister. A low micron filter sock would help you a bit with clarity from the bloom if you wanted an alternative to the UV. IME neither the UV or the socks are needed and are only preference for polishing the water.

 

[terri_ann]

Didnt read all the replays but..
It could be cyano, which is a bacteria .

 

[Ecvernon]

I didn't read the whole thread. I stopped when I read you have 2 marine pure bricks in 90 gallon tank. I think you don't have too much bacterial, but too much bio media.

 

[SteadyC]

Based on your description I would say bacteria bloom and I would say not out of the ordinary at all for a dry rock setup with a fish loaf at 4 months. Like you stated the tank is just trying for equilibrium.

I would pull the marine pure blocks before I started dosing 3 and 4. I would pull one out. ....wait a week or two and then check levels. If still zero pull the other one. The other option is to feed more if your feeding lightly at this time.

I would also pull the canister. A low micron filter sock would help you a bit with clarity from the bloom if you wanted an alternative to the UV. IME neither the UV or the socks are needed and are only preference for polishing the water.

This sounds like the best plan to me. Simplify, not do more complex things like dosing. Removing a bio block is a first step in my mind, and I would probably wait a month before removing second, take things slow. Running GAC, and filter sock for a couple of weeks are also great first things. Your tank is very new, give it time. Dosing other things at this point, is not necessary given how old your tank is, it’s already trying to find balance, don’t throw it out of whack more by dumping stuff in. In a mature tank, sure, but not a 4 month old tank. And yes, ignore the sand cleaning threads, again, your tank is only 4 months old, your sand can’t be dirty yet.

 

[Justin....#JAMAS]

Do you have pvc for your return or is it that clear hose you install that you get from your lfs?

 

[Justin....#JAMAS]

Ive noticed that when I did have the clear hose for my return line, and it had been running for a couple months, on the inside walls of the return tubing it starts to build up this white slimy/flaky stuff...and every so often I'd take that hose off and clean it out....build up from either something from the salt prob , no worries