I think something bad is happening

[attiland]

Maybe slow down a little, you say you started aquriam in August, your nitrates and nitrites should be 0.0 for a fully cycled aquriam, as yours is still reading quite high i would not add any more life until you sort out your parimaters and cycle the aquarium with a fish in cycle

Nitrates should not be 0 in any tank ever. If would be I would be worried. Anyway this is nothing to do with cycle the tank since 2-3 month old

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Are there any alternative effective treatments that don't require medication? They simply aren't available in Canada. It'd be helpful to know if I ever run into this problem.

The only treatment I know of that doesn't require medication would be freshwater dips. These will work to cure a fluke infestation, but putting the fish back into the affected tank results in re-infestation. Some flukes are egg layers. There will be unhatched eggs in the tank, so the dip won't touch them. Moving the fish to a new tank helps with that. The other issue is that FW dips are typically not 100% effective, so flukes tend to return. You may need to do a series of "dip and move" treatments.

Jay

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Good morning, all! And thank you guys for all the information.

I've done some more observation this morning and the clown does appear to be more comfortable than before. I haven't seen her try to scrape since, but I can tell she's still irritated at something though.

I've got 3 LFS in my area that I like. I'll be smiling and dialing as soon as they open to try and source some PraziPro. Amazon says they can deliver it to me by 8:00 am tomorrow, but I really want to try and start treatment as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Supa]

4.3ppm isn't high for nitrates. 15 is elevated, 25 is high - 50 is definitely high. After 3 months the tank has definitely cycled or everything would be dead (4 "alive" fish and 0 ammonia would seem to back that up). What kind of filtration/flow do you have in the tank right now?

I agree and want to add, that I have a friend that keeps his nitrates “elevated” 25-50 range and everything he has thrives, and has been for years….. I am new and I don’t know much about anything, but my nitrates in my new tank(3,4 months old stay near 20. No matter the skimmer time or WC, filter media etc. and I’m not trying to state a point just simply saying my stuff is doing ok also with some nitrates in the system…..

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Fed the tank TDO. RG and male clown ate. Today is the 2nd day the female rejected feeding

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Followed instructions on the bottle. Did a 55% water change and then dosed 9.25ml PraziPro to the tank. I have also temporarily added an air pump to the display

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Good afternoon

The tank has been dosed with PraziPro for approximately 18 hours. The female clown took around 4 TDO pellets today, so I'm going to say there's some improvement because she's eating now.

I did notice what appears to be an open wound on the female clown just above her gill. It was very hard to get a decent picture of it, but here's what I was able to get for now.

It's hard to see in the picture, but there's damaged and exposed flesh/scales on the edges of the wound and raw/exposed flesh in the center of the wound. I'm not sure when this first appeared but today's the first time I noticed it. I'm also unsure what the cause of the wound could be, but my best guess is that this is a result of the scraping.

I was wondering if there's anything else I should be doing to help and promote healing and improve her comfort. I can tell that she's still irritated from something. I suspect it's the wound.

Thank you for your advice.

@Miami Reef @Jay Hemdal

 

[Miami Reef]

It’s normal for fish to get itchy right after the fluke treatment because the parasites are literally spasming off the fish.

I do not know what the cause of that red sore is. Could it be from the scratching? Possibly.


I think closer pictures can help a lot.

How is the royal gramma doing? I was mostly worried about that fish because it was scratching a lot. I believe that fish was mostly infested with flukes.

 

[Brice|F4llen]

It’s normal for fish to get itchy right after the fluke treatment because the parasites are literally spasming off the fish.

I do not know what the cause of that red sore is. Could it be from the scratching? Possibly.


I think closer pictures can help a lot.

How is the royal gramma doing? I was mostly worried about that fish because it was scratching a lot. I believe that fish was mostly infested with flukes.

Trying really hard to get you some good images... The problem is that the sore spot is right in the middle of one of her orange patches, making it more difficult to distinguish.

There are a couple of pretty good glimpses in this video.

Right at 12 seconds you get a pretty good glimpse at the wound. I'm really worried about her. I don't have a good feeling in my gut

The RG seems to still be scraping.

The RG has been demonstrating some territorial behavior which I expect to see from a royal. If the clowns come too close to her little hidey holes, the RG will rush out and then open her mouth wide in a threatening display. I have seen the RG nip at the female clown once but it wasn't serious nor did the clown even seem to mind. In turn, the male clown came up behind the RG and bit her back fin. The RG immediately darted into the cave.

I've only ever kept 1 other RG and this behavior is pretty characteristic to me. I found my RG to be very weird and quirky, but in terms of aggression all bark and no bite. Is this your experience? Can someone more experienced keeping RG chime in on this?

I didn't put 2 and 2 together at the time, but could the wound be a serious bite from the RG?

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Just saw the RG scrape. Here's the RG

1635807335492.mp4

MP4 File

1drv.ms

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Guys. I definitely see specs on the RG. I think we may have misdiagnosed.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Just saw the RG scrape. Here's the RG

1635807335492.mp4

MP4 File

1drv.ms

The gramma has a little fin damage and its fins are "congested" - a bit milky/cloudy. Combine that with the flashing/scratching and you should consider it did have flukes. Prazi doesn't result in immediate cessation of symptoms - the holes left by the flukes when they dropped off still cause the fish to "itch". You'll also need to schedule a second prazipro treatment, in case the flukes were an egg laying species. I usually do a second dose 7 to 10 days after the first. I usually do a 35% water change just prior to the second treatment.

Jay

 

[Brice|F4llen]

The gramma has a little fin damage and its fins are "congested" - a bit milky/cloudy. Combine that with the flashing/scratching and you should consider it did have flukes. Prazi doesn't result in immediate cessation of symptoms - the holes left by the flukes when they dropped off still cause the fish to "itch". You'll also need to schedule a second prazipro treatment, in case the flukes were an egg laying species. I usually do a second dose 7 to 10 days after the first. I usually do a 35% water change just prior to the second treatment.

Jay

Okay, that makes sense.

I'm trying to get a really good picture of the RG face. There's a subtle haziness/scratchy specs that I didn't notice until just a couple hours ago. I was fearing the worst, but I think it could be explained by what you just described. I didn't really know what to expect.

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Just got home from work for lunch and I went to check on the tank. Unfortunately, the RG has passed on.

I got a pretty good feeding response from the clowns today. So I think they're still feeling well enough to eat at least. Haven't noticed any scratching yet from the clowns, but still a bit of erratic behavior like they're irritated here and there.

I'm very worried now for the clowns now. Do you guys think they will survive? I feel like crap now. I don't want to lose any other tankmates.

I will continue treatment as recommended for the clowns. Going to try and increase feeding frequency also to twice per day with smaller portions. I want to keep these guys as well fed as possible while they fight the flukes.

If there's anything else I should be doing to help protect the clowns, please let me know. Thank you guys for your support and advice thus far.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Just got home from work for lunch and I went to check on the tank. Unfortunately, the RG has passed on.

I got a pretty good feeding response from the clowns today. So I think they're still feeling well enough to eat at least. Haven't noticed any scratching yet from the clowns, but still a bit of erratic behavior like they're irritated here and there.

I'm very worried now for the clowns now. Do you guys think they will survive? I feel like crap now. I don't want to lose any other tankmates.

I will continue treatment as recommended for the clowns. Going to try and increase feeding frequency also to twice per day with smaller portions. I want to keep these guys as well fed as possible while they fight the flukes.

If there's anything else I should be doing to help protect the clowns, please let me know. Thank you guys for your support and advice thus far.

Sorry to hear. I can’t see much on the gramma, but it’s caudal fin looks oddly short, is it just the way the fin is folded?
Your plan for the clowns seems appropriate….
Jay

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Sorry to hear. I can’t see much on the gramma, but it’s caudal fin looks oddly short, is it just the way the fin is folded?
Your plan for the clowns seems appropriate….
Jay

The fin was folded because of how I picked him up. I noticed the same thing. I am unsure if there was additional damage to that fin after death.

The female clown's condition seems to have worsened, though still eating.

I'm noticing a new behavior where she appears to be having an issue with her pectoral fin. She periodically appears to be holding it outward like she's trying to shake my hand. She's not fluttering it back and forth like her other pectoral fin.

I'm also noticing on the female clown a hazy surface and incredibly small white specs. It's almost powdery. This is the first time I've noticed this if it was there before. I believe it's a new development because I've been paying very close attention. I do not see the hazy/specs on the male clown at all. It's VERY subtle. I'm having trouble getting pictures to show you

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Got a decent video of the surface this time:

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Got a decent video of the surface this time:

Ugh - I can see the haze now and the clowns are breathing a bit fast. This could be a protozoan issue. There isn’t a good resolution for this if it is: copper in a treatment tank is the only way to go really. You could try ruby reef rally pro or polyp lab medic - these can be used in your main tank but are often not effective.

 

[Brice|F4llen]

Good morning everyone.

During the night, the female clown has taken a breathtaking turn for the worst. I don't suspect her to survive the day.

I feel completely rotten. I don't even know if I want this tank anymore. I don't know what to do next.

As terrible as the outcome is likely to be, I wanted to thank all of you guys especially @Jay Hemdal for all the help and support along the way

 

[Dom]

Maybe slow down a little, you say you started aquriam in August, your nitrates and nitrites should be 0.0 for a fully cycled aquriam, as yours is still reading quite high i would not add any more life until you sort out your parimaters and cycle the aquarium with a fish in cycle

Nitrites should be zero. The presence of nitrates does not mean an un-cycled tank.