Ice Cap WiFi Controller “Registration”

[n2585722]

No, the biggest issues is that these devices are boat anchors without their cloud service.

Wait till you try and buy a new car. They are connected to the cloud but have what is called connected services several of which require subscriptions for each. They range for $120-$800 a year depending on which one it is. Not sure how long they would go without connecting to the cloud but they do have built in mobile service so they should be able to where ever they are.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Wait till you try and buy a new car. They are connected to the cloud but have what is called connected services several of which require subscriptions for each. They range for $120-$800 a year depending on which one it is. Not sure how long they would go without connecting to the cloud but they do have built in mobile service so they should be able to where ever they are.

There is a difference between add-on subscription services and the complete inability to use a device unless it is connected. Registration hurdles add to the unacceptable situation. Your use is at the whim of the vendor. Likewise "included" services that are moved to a "paid" tier are also unacceptable.

You are correct in the fact that more vendors are moving to this model and one often has no choice.

 

[n2585722]

There is a difference between add-on subscription services and the complete inability to use a device unless it is connected. Registration hurdles add to the unacceptable situation. Your use is at the whim of the vendor. Likewise "included" services that are moved to a "paid" tier are also unacceptable.

You are correct in the fact that more vendors are moving to this model and one often has no choice.

It will continue to run as setup without the cloud but you would need the cloud to change things so loosing internet for a while is not all bad. I lost internet for 5 day straight but I was able to connect with it with my phone with wifi turned off via bluetooth. That allows you to do overrides of the outputs from off, auto or on if needed. I don't have the IceCap controller but have the Hydros controllers and they do use the same app.

I got a new 2023 Mustang and there is a phone app for it where you can tell were it was last on if it is in sleep mode and also mileage, tire pressure and available range left. You can also lock and unlock it from the app along with starting it and stopping it. I don't have the phone setup as the key yet but that would give a few more things it would do from the app. I got in the first of December and have had about 3 over the air firmware updates already. Those things are a big computer on wheels nowadays. I also have to go through the Ford website to get to some of the things such as vehicle health reports and the 12v battery charge value. The $800 a year subscription is for the self driving feature. I don't think that is worth that much so I won't subscribe to that. The adaptive cruse control is almost as good you just have to keep your hands on the wheel for that one.

 

[Tavero]

I have an older iPad that will no longer update to the latest OS and about the only app that will still work is the web browser but most websites no longer work on the older web browser so it will only do a few things now. youtube over the web browser still works so my cat can watch Tom and Jerry on it. She loves watching that. The youtube app no longer works though.

iOS is particularly prone to planned obsolescence because the customer can't install apps without the official store (leading to situations where no apps are available anymore). But if the new EU law has anything to say about that, this will change in the near future.
For the first time iPhone users will have the choice to install apps that they chose to, not what apple allows them to.

 

[Tavero]

I think the biggest thing is how educated is the customer on the process of having to unregister the device if they choose to sell it. I’m sure it’s in the manual, maybe not, but most people are just going to set it up and forget about anything else. It seems like a lot of unnecessary extra work on customer service and buyer and seller on any resell. Maybe they’re counting on not as many resales.

Either way it seems like the cloud could have been a separate function to load, aside from the hardware, but I’m not a cloud expert.

Coralvue did unregister it, so I’m happy about it. Now working to get firmware updated.

Literally no one reads a manual for a self explanatory tool. How is the customer supposed to know, factory reset on this device isn't actually factory reset and he has to unregister it before reselling. Sorry but that's just a stupid design, or on purpose. Probably both.
But congrats for getting it to run again.

 

[BeanAnimal]

iOS is particularly prone to planned obsolescence because the customer can't install apps without the official store

1 - the primary functions of the device (the phone, browser, sms and email) are available without the store.
2 - there is no "cost" for the "store"
3 - ignoring battery gate, the only real obsolescence has been evolving carrier protocols and chipsets, as well as CPU shortcomings as the IOS OS evolves and to that end they have at least a decade of legacy devices that still work.

But is really not the context here. No phone can work without the "cloud" infrastructure from the carrier. You pointing out the digital locking of the ecosystem. While that worth of debate, I don't think it really encompasses what the issue in this hobby and how these devices are connected or used.

 

[n2585722]

iOS is particularly prone to planned obsolescence because the customer can't install apps without the official store (leading to situations where no apps are available anymore). But if the new EU law has anything to say about that, this will change in the near future.
For the first time iPhone users will have the choice to install apps that they chose to, not what apple allows them to.

I still have the apps installed on it but they will not work any longer since they are out of date so going back to an older app which I still have does not work. A few of the apps still work though.

 

[n2585722]

So? Again as I said, there is no reason to not implement factory reset on the device. If factory reset doesn't give you a factory fresh device, it's not factory reset. You know hence the name: factory reset.

What if your phone breaks and you can't remember your account information? You can't access your controller in your own home anymore? Lol.
Also any company no matter how old and successful can theoretically declare bankruptcy tomorrow. What then? You can't access your controller in your own home anymore? Lol.

I'm not against cloud features but I'm against proprietary cloud features. If the customer is forced to use a specific companies cloud, he doesn't own the device. Just because other companies are screwing customers too doesn't make that screwing better.

Factory reset does work on the device and will set the device back to the original factory settings but that will not clear the info in the cloud for that device. The original owner can still delete it from their account without having the device. So most of the time all it takes is to contact the seller and have them delete it. Any kind of reset on the device itself is not going to change the information in the cloud. Also with all the controllers in the same cloud base makes it easy for the manufacturer to help with issues since they can get in through the cloud and make changes if needed for you. If everyone used a different cloud that would not be possible for them to do.

 

[n2585722]

We’re in email communications, so I’m just waiting on his response. I mentioned the firmware issue. He should know the action above, but if not in the response, I will relay this. Thank you!!!

Did you get the firmware updated?

 

[Kodock]

Did you get the firmware updated?

Yea, they did it, working to figure out how to set the power and everything

 

[n2585722]

Yea, they did it, working to figure out how to set the power and everything

Once you setup an output you will need at least one schedule to get the pump to run? I believe the IceCap works the same as a WE LE for the most part since that replaced the IceCap controller.

 

[Kodock]

Once you setup an output you will need at least one schedule to get the pump to run? I believe the IceCap works the same as a WE LE for the most part since that replaced the IceCap controller.

I’ve clicked my way onto an idle override, just keeping the pump at min 25% up to 35%. The scheduling and everything will take me some digesting. I made a “schedule” but lights on controller are flickering green, so not sure it registered. Anyway, I’m fine with one constant speed at all times for now. Thank you for all of your help!!

 

[n2585722]

I’ve clicked my way onto an idle override, just keeping the pump at min 25% up to 35%. The scheduling and everything will take me some digesting. I made a “schedule” but lights on controller are flickering green, so not sure it registered. Anyway, I’m fine with one constant speed at all times for now. Thank you for all of your help!!

If this helps any this is one of my schedules for my flow pumps. I have a WEv2 with a RF module that controls my MP10's. This is my morning schedule but if you just want one schedule for now use a start time of 00:00:00 and end time of 00:00:00 for it. You can control more than one pump with one schedule. You don't need to worry about setting a depends on setting with yours.

 

[Tavero]

Factory reset does work on the device and will set the device back to the original factory settings but that will not clear the info in the cloud for that device. The original owner can still delete it from their account without having the device. So most of the time all it takes is to contact the seller and have them delete it. Any kind of reset on the device itself is not going to change the information in the cloud. Also with all the controllers in the same cloud base makes it easy for the manufacturer to help with issues since they can get in through the cloud and make changes if needed for you. If everyone used a different cloud that would not be possible for them to do.

Its not possible because the manufacturer has no intention to make it possible. There is a difference here. And again if factory reset doesn't give you a factory fresh device, it's not factory reset. The definition is quite simple and includes obligatory internet registration. I can also use a cloud account on my phone for backup. If I factory reset my phone, the cloud connection is gone until I reestablish it or create a new cloud account.


This is about security cameras but the issue is the same: you need a obligatory cloud connection? You don't own the device.

 

[Tavero]

But is really not the context here. No phone can work without the "cloud" infrastructure from the carrier. You pointing out the digital locking of the ecosystem. While that worth of debate, I don't think it really encompasses what the issue in this hobby and how these devices are connected or used.

I don't understand your argument.
What do you mean with cloud infrastructure? I'm using Android phones but I neither have a google account nor do I use the google store app. I still have full functionality of my phone. The google store app is really not the only place where you can get android apps.

 

[n2585722]

Its not possible because the manufacturer has no intention to make it possible. There is a difference here. And again if factory reset doesn't give you a factory fresh device, it's not factory reset. The definition is quite simple and includes obligatory internet registration. I can also use a cloud account on my phone for backup. If I factory reset my phone, the cloud connection is gone until I reestablish it or create a new cloud account.


This is about security cameras but the issue is the same: you need a obligatory cloud connection? You don't own the device.

If you want a controller erased from your account you can do that. All you have to do is delete the device from your account. Then anyone can add that controller to their account. You can also do a factory reset after deleting it if you want and it would be the same as when first purchased other than any firmware updates done on it since it was purchased.

 

[Troylee]

I had this problem with a hydros wave engine I bought used and the original guy just had to remove his email and then I could set it up under mine. Easy to do if the old owner is able to be contacted lol…

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don't understand your argument.
What do you mean with cloud infrastructure? I'm using Android phones but I neither have a google account nor do I use the google store app. I still have full functionality of my phone. The google store app is really not the only place where you can get android apps.

Because you didn’t read it in context. I was responding to your planned iOS obsolescence tangent, that’s all.

 

[BeanAnimal]

If you want a controller erased from your account you can do that. All you have to do is delete the device from your account. Then anyone can add that controller to their account. You can also do a factory reset after deleting it if you want and it would be the same as when first purchased other than any firmware updates done on it since it was purchased.

You are missing the point. You can’t use it without their permission and intervention. They could for whatever reason deny your request, ignore it or change their policy and force you to “pay” to transfer it for example. Your device functionality is at their whim. They could also force current users to start paying or lose full access or function. Do you “own” it in the sense of having freedoms to use or it as you wish or transfer it to somebody else at your wish? No.

 

[Troylee]

You are missing the point. You can’t use it without their permission and intervention. They could for whatever reason deny your request, ignore it or change their policy and force you to “pay” to transfer it for example. Your device functionality is at their whim. They could also force current users to start paying or lose full access or function. Do you “own” it in the sense of having freedoms to use or it as you wish or transfer it to somebody else at your wish? No.

That’s exactly what bmw did with heated seats and other things on their cars.. every car comes equipped with them but you have a monthly or yearly fee to pay or subscribe too, to use those features which I think is bs!