ICH, despite my efforts

[dealseer]

Why not abandon the copper and switch to ttm? Be done in 12 days. After the 12 days put them in observation to be sure it's not velvet your dealing with.

<-- not a copper fan. Too much work, too much room for error.

I agree. Not sure why some prefer copper.

 

[Brew12]

I agree. Not sure why some prefer copper.

Velvet is very common right now and TTM doesn't work for it unless you do transfers daily.

 

[dealseer]

Thank you.

 

[Mundeez]

Not sure if this helped, but I started soaking her food in Seachem's Nourish and Garlic Guard when she first broke out in the white dots. Looking in on her today, most of them are gone. Before i left for work she was still scratching, but since I've been home i haven't seen her do it. I will probably try ttm next time though. I also have chloroquine phosphate, but as i understand it, Hippos are very intolerant of it, so that's out of the question.

 

[Brew12]

Not sure if this helped, but I started soaking her food in Seachem's Nourish and Garlic Guard when she first broke out in the white dots. Looking in on her today, most of them are gone. Before i left for work she was still scratching, but since I've been home i haven't seen her do it. I will probably try ttm next time though. I also have chloroquine phosphate, but as i understand it, Hippos are very intolerant of it, so that's out of the question.

Its hard to say if what you are seeing is the fish building up a natural immunity or if it is the cyclical nature of the parasite. It is possible that the parasite will return in even larger numbers in the next 3 to 7 days.

 

[Triggreef]

Velvet is very common right now and TTM doesn't work for it unless you do transfers daily.

Hence the suggested observation period. Within a couple weeks you'll know if you have velvet or not.

 

[Brew12]

Hence the suggested observation period. Within a couple weeks you'll know if you have velvet or not.

Maybe, or maybe not. If your fish in QT has a natural immunity to velvet and he doesn't lose that immunity from the stress of TTM, it is possible that he won't show observable symptoms. That is why I don't recommend TTM to people right now and it does answer the question as to why some people prefer copper.

 

[cmcoker]

Maybe, or maybe not. If your fish in QT has a natural immunity to velvet and he doesn't lose that immunity from the stress of TTM, it is possible that he won't show observable symptoms. That is why I don't recommend TTM to people right now and it does answer the question as to why some people prefer copper.

Yeah, this is why I have changed from TTM and observation to Copper. I don't want risk it. Also people who don't have time to actually sit and observe the quarantine fish, EVERY single day, I think are better served by prophylactic treatment with medication.
I'd actually prefer to use CP as I can easily get some. But I am quarantining a wrasse right now, which is supposed to not tolerate CP. He has done well with Copper, active and eating like a pig.

 

[Mundeez]

Its hard to say if what you are seeing is the fish building up a natural immunity or if it is the cyclical nature of the parasite. It is possible that the parasite will return in even larger numbers in the next 3 to 7 days.

Shouldn't the copper be killing the Theronts though? Thus breaking the cycle and preventing future attacks?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Shouldn't the copper be killing the Theronts though? Thus breaking the cycle and preventing future attacks?

Yes, if the fish are in THERAPEUTIC copper for at least 14 days they can be transferred to a new STERILE QT and observed. If you do not wish to transfer tanks, you will need to maintain copper at therapeutic levels for at least 30 days to ensure full eradication.

Edit. I just realized what thread this is. I still stand by the above, but I'm not 100% convinced you are still dealing with ich or velvet. If it was me, I think my next step would be to try adding metroplex to the water. I'm not sure if brook is suppressed at all by copper but I know it can sometimes present with spots resembling velvet or ich.

 

[Brew12]

Shouldn't the copper be killing the Theronts though? Thus breaking the cycle and preventing future attacks?

The copper does kill the Theronts. The problem is the Tomonts. If a Tomont hatches after you remove the copper it will reinfect the fish. It takes more than the 14 days to kill all the tomonts but 30 days is enough to do it. That is why you can transfer at 10 days or you can pull the copper at 30 days.

 

[Mundeez]

The copper does kill the Theronts. The problem is the Tomonts. If a Tomont hatches after you remove the copper it will reinfect the fish. It takes more than the 14 days to kill all the tomonts but 30 days is enough to do it. That is why you can transfer at 10 days or you can pull the copper at 30 days.

Still so weird they she would show symptoms 2 weeks into the copper treatment... keeping my fingers crossed that symptoms don't flare up again in the coming weeks

 

[Brew12]

Still so weird they she would show symptoms 2 weeks into the copper treatment... keeping my fingers crossed that symptoms don't flare up again in the coming weeks

Ok, I understand where you were going with this now. I think I got lost in the thread. I was speaking under generic terms. You are absolutely correct in that the fish should not have shown signs of re-infection while in copper. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Carlos Danger]

ICH! The bane of the saltwater hobby! Its always rearing its ugly head.

 

[melypr1985]

I'm not sure if brook is suppressed at all by copper but I know it can sometimes present with spots resembling velvet or ich.

Brook can be and is suppressed by copper.... though after a time it will build itself up enough to show and kill while the fish is in copper.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Brook can be and is suppressed by copper.... though after a time it will build itself up enough to show and kill while the fish is in copper.

Do you think that could be what's going on here?

 

[melypr1985]

Do you think that could be what's going on here?

I'm not all together sure. Having brook show up on every single fish is odd, because not every fish will be susceptible to it. I can't remember what all was used to treat these fish but if metroplex was used on them it should have covered that possibility..... freshwater, formalin and acriflavin dips all should have helped tremendously. This one isn't an easy one to diagnose.

 

[Triggreef]

I'm not all together sure. Having brook show up on every single fish is odd, because not every fish will be susceptible to it. I can't remember what all was used to treat these fish but if metroplex was used on them it should have covered that possibility..... freshwater, formalin and acriflavin dips all should have helped tremendously. This one isn't an easy one to diagnose.

Unless the copper being an off brand, could have something to do with it. There's room for error no matter which method you go with. I've had rather good luck with TTM over the years so naturally I'm an advocate for it. Good luck, hope you figure it out.

 

[Mariners]

Have u tried using cupramine instead? I believe cuparamine is more effective and less harsh on the fish. Although if u use a test kit for cupramine--you need to use either the seachem copper or salifert copper test. Another preferable treatment for ich is using hyposalinity if u have a refractometer. Try this link on hyposalinity. https://www.thespruce.com/hyposalinity-or-osmotic-shock-therapy-2924970

 

[Mundeez]

I would continue copper treatment for 2 more weeks (so, 4 weeks total) and we'll reevaluate their condition then.

@Humblefish and @melypr1985 and @4FordFamily, today is the 30th day the fish have been in therapeutic levels of coppersafe. Neither fish has shown any additional symptoms since the initial outbreak 10 days ago. Where should I go from here?