ICH - Embarrassed to Post / Should Have Listened

[nyknicks2544]

Well I live in an apartment and have limited means to QT. Tried the best I could by ordering high quality fish from Divers Den but still ended up with what I believe is ICH (praying not Velvet). White dots (often hard to see) started on my Tangs (Bristletooth and Powder Blue) and have spread to other fish (Copperbanded Butterfly and Wrasse).

I am in the process of lowering salinity to try hypo. I am confident that I can maintain 1.009 for an extended period of time.

Strange thing is and why I don't believe it is Velvet is that the fish are eating / acting completely normal. Tangs have shown it for a week and it has come and gone (powder blue shows absolutely no signs anymore though he's quick so hard to see).

I have fed heavily and they eat like pigs (including Copperbanded Butterfly which appetite appears to have improved in the last week and now eats LRS / Mysis directly out of water column and even steals food out of other fishes mouth). Powder blue is only one not eating meaty foods and will just chomp on nori. Tank is new and there is a fair amount of algae. The tangs constantly and I mean literally every second are picking at rocks / glass while swimming laps. Coloration on all fish is excellent and all are extremely active.

I am praying it is ICH and the hypo will knock it out. I will QT in the future but afraid this time I can't catch these guys and am leaving for a week to ski and will be unable to manage a QT so it has to be hypo in the display. The week gone will be tough - just pellets on AFS which the tangs / butterfly won't eat. Tangs will get algae in the tank and I think the CBB should be fine as I am planning on fattening up significantly before I leave.

Assuming there is not much else I can do?

 

[JoshH]

#Reefsquad any thoughts? Seems to be a tough spot to be in

 

[saltyhog]

Some pictures would help. I agree, if they are still alive and eating after a week that would be very unusual for velvet. Be aware that there are hypo resistant strains of C. irritans and they seem to be getting more common. Given your situation however, that may be your best bet.

And don't be embarrassed Josh, we all mess up.....that's integral to being human!

The very best thing would be to remove them to a hospital tank and treat with copper, leave your tank fallow (without fish for ~76 days).

 

[nyknicks2544]

Some pictures would help. I agree, if they are still alive and eating after a week that would be very unusual for velvet. Be aware that there are hypo resistant strains of C. irritans and they seem to be getting more common. Given your situation however, that may be your best bet.

The very best thing would be to remove them to a hospital tank and treat with copper, leave your tank fallow (without fish for ~76 days).

I will be setting up a hospital tank for any new additions - I really dont think I can catch these guys. Maybe but it will be tough. I also can't do it until back from skiing in next Saturday (gone Saturday - Saturday).

The time period is what makes me doubt velvet. I might be able to get a picture of my CBB tail but 0 chance on the tangs. Those guys whip around the tank lol...

 

[HotRocks]

Can you upload some pics? Probably be good to confirm it's not velvet. If it's velvet you'd definitely want to go a different treatment route.

Hypo is very tough to maintain. I get fish with ich, velvet, flukes, you name it from DD all the time.

Nothing to be embarrassed about at all we are here to help you and your fish!!!

 

[miyags]

I think hypo in main tank will kill all beneficial bacteria. and a lot of other living stuff in your display tank.

 

[nyknicks2544]

I think hypo in main tank will kill all beneficial bacteria. and a lot of other living stuff in your display tank.

Everything I have read has said it will just kill inverts (i have none) - but if all my live rock will die that will be a huge issue...

 

[JumboShrimp]

Agreed— ‘Don’t be embarrassed.’ Everyone is happy now, but it took going QT/copper/fallow 3 times to get there!

 

[nyknicks2544]

Pictures below - note there is a lot of particles floating around the tank as I have stirred everything up doing water changes for hypo but hopefully these help.

Bristletooth us the worst. Along back and face and sides.

Can only see it on fins of CBB

Small spot on tail is all I see on the Foxface...

Powder Blue is too fast but looks clean - not sure if he is “fat” by your standards but seems healthy

Wrasse has some spots on tail:

 

[rkpetersen]

How soon are you leaving? You might have time to set up a temporary UV sterilizer, which may at least serve to keep parasite levels down while you're gone. Also nearly foolproof and for the most part won't hurt anything you want to keep. All you need is a sterilizer, a pump, some flexible tubing, valve, and some hose clamps. Or you can do a permanent one if you have the materials and time.

 

[nyknicks2544]

How soon are you leaving? You might have time to set up a temporary UV sterilizer, which may at least serve to keep parasite levels down while you're gone. Also nearly foolproof and for the most part won't hurt anything you want to keep. All you need is a sterilizer, a pump, some flexible tubing, valve, and some hose clamps. Or you can do a permanent one if you have the materials and time.

Considered a UV sterilizer and may eventually go that route - though my understanding is it won't cure the already infected and will only keep the ICH levels down but they will always be in the tank.

Any harm in doing UV with Hypo? I will have Hypo levels complete by the time I leave and am confident with > 110 gallons of water that I can successfully keep a very consistent salinity. I have kept it spot on at 1.026 for last 4 months.

 

[rkpetersen]

Any harm in doing UV with Hypo? I will have Hypo levels complete by the time I leave and am confident with > 110 gallons of water that I can successfully keep a very consistent salinity. I have kept it spot on at 1.026 for last 4 months.

I wouldn't think so but have never tried both together. The UV sterilizer shouldn't have any direct effect on fish at all.

 

[nyknicks2544]

Well I reached hypo either last night or this morning. Milwaukee digital is reading 1.009 and refractormeter is 1.01 Plan to keep dropping until Milwaukee is at 1.008 slowly and hopefully refractometer breaks to 1.009.

It has gotten worse. Appetite is still there but white spots are visible. White tail bristletooth has grey spots on his tail too. Powder blue has lumps under skin. Can see white spots on his body but not at all lumps.

I have prazipro coming in mail and will dose on Friday in display (have read it’s safe if I want to have coral later?). I won’t be able to QT until back from my trip next week (will have cupermine, metro, kana by then). Such horrible timing I am pretty confident if this hypo doesn’t work they are all going to die...feel terrible but can’t reschedule and know no one in my area into reefs to help.

Appetites are all still very high and activity is still high.

Can I get a confirmation from the pictures below it’s ich or are you all unsure? Especially the new symptoms of grey dots on tail (can’t get picture) and lumps on powder (see last picture).

As always thanks so much for the help and I hope someone reads this and uses it as a lesson to QT regardless. Fish don’t deserve this.

 

[miyags]

Put a SeaChem ammonia badge in the tank, incase you killed off your nitrifying bacteria on your live rock.Well if ammonia spikes when your not home,That =Wipe Out.Your tank also looks like a new set-up.

 

[rkpetersen]

It does look like crypto to me. The lumpiness of the powder blue, I'm not sure about the cause of that; probably not directly related to the crypto infection, though.

 

[nyknicks2544]

It does look like crypto to me. The lumpiness of the powder blue, I'm not sure about the cause of that; probably not directly related to the crypto infection, though.

Thanks I am now seeing more white dots where those bumps are. Wondering if it just had not progressed to the white dot stage and was still under the skin.

Put a SeaChem ammonia badge in the tank, incase you killed off your nitrifying bacteria on your live rock.Well if ammonia spikes when your not home,That =Wipe Out.Your tank also looks like a new set-up.

I have been testing for ammonia but will get a badge tomorrow - I could potentially dose prime every 24 hours as a precaution using my Apex DOS. Not sure if anyone has done that. Just a bad situation all around but I learned my (expensive) lesson.

 

[nyknicks2544]

Well I made it home from the trip and all the fish are alive!

A quick glance shows fish that are significantly improved. I had trouble spotting any spots on any of the fish. Literally night and day improvement. White tail bristletooth has some marks that I can’t get a good look at - might be scars? But none of the fish are overflowing with white spots like when I left.

Salinity was 1.008 before leaving will check later but hopefully it stayed in that range.

I have everything to QT except tank / filter - at this point would you pull the fish and do copper or continue with hypo assuming close inspection later shows no spots?

 

[rkpetersen]

If what you're doing is working and you're not suffering casualties, I would personally stay with that approach for a while at least. You can always switch to copper if it recurs.

 

[DSC reef]

If what you're doing is working and you're not suffering casualties, I would personally stay with that approach for a while at least. You can always switch to copper if it recurs.

Agree 100 %

 

[nyknicks2544]

Thanks everyone! Was really relieved to see they made it. Not sure I am out of the woods with everything but the fact that they are still alive and without dots is good. 2 new things:

1) The white tail bristletooth tang has marks on his body. They are white. Some of lines maybe 1/2” long that look like scrapes. There are also other white “nicks” which I am unsure if they are spots or something else. Leaning to something else as I am not seeing spots like before where his fins were covered and it was all over his body / face. These are few and far between. Could this be scaring from scratching or something else other than ich? All other fish show no signs at all since going hypo and they all were infected including a powder blue tang that was covered with large body lumps and now appears completely clear.

2) Both my clownfish have white mouths. They are also losing color in their white areas with darkening. Could this be some sort of infection or could the hypo be killing them or just resulting in loss of color?

I have Prazi-pro, Metro, KanaPlex and Focus available to treat the display tank. Can also QT with Cooper I’d the ich takes another turn.

Thanks for all the help throughout this. This forum is truly a valuable resource!