Ich management recommendations

[Littlewolf]

So I'm pretty sure we have ich...i think. No idea where it came from. Haven't added anyone new in about 3 weeks and everyone gets QT first. I have a 75 gal with 2 black clowns, a yellow clown goby, a royal gramma, a splendid pintail fairy wrasse, and a snowflake eel. I also have a coral banded shrimp, a skunk cleaner shrimp and various snails and hermit crabs for CUC. Right now all of the fish are eating very well and are very active. I saw the Royal Gramma rub against the rocks a couple times about a week ago, but could not see anything on her. Tested the water and everything was fine, but did a good water change just in case. She didn't do it again after the water change so I thought maybe there had been something about the water that was bothering her. Everyone has been acting normal. Now I can see a couple white spots on the wrasse's fins and on the gramma when the light hits her just right. And I just now saw her rub on the sand. I know I need to pull everyone out and place them in QT for proper treatment and leave the tank fallow for 76 days. The problem is that I am going out of town for a couple weeks in about 6 weeks so I dont have 76 days to quarantine and treat everyone AND get them back into the tank before I go. I currently have a healthy Tomini Tang in my QT that I was prepping to go in the DT in a couple weeks so I will have to set up a second QT for the rest of my fish for treatment. My dad will be watching our house/animals while we are gone and while he is very responsible, I don't want to put more on him by having to manage the DT with the shrimp, mulitple QTs and having to do semi-frequent water changes on a the "sick fish" QT. My thought was to leave the fish in the DT (obviously will not introduce in the Tomini) just for the time being and manage the ich until we get home from our trip, then move them to QT where I can properly treat them. What, if anything, can I treat the DT with to lessen the effects of the Ich on my fish and keep it manageable until I can put them in QT in November. I know there are no cures other than copper, just looking for input on anything that may help manage until copper treatment in QT is possible. I know there are certain things eels and wrasses can be sensitive to so I would appreciate any input.

 

[Opus]

Just keep the fish well fed and happy with good water conditions. I've been managing ich in my tank for many many years. If somethings stresses the fish out then it shows up, reduce the stress and it goes away. I haven't seen any in about a year or more on my fish.

 

[kevgib67]

This is what I did in February 2022 and it hasn’t come back. I know it’s still in there and could pop up again if a fish’s immune system gets reduced. I added a uv, used Polyp Lab Medic and fed heavy soaking all food in Selcon, Vitachem and Garlic Extreme. I still have all my fish. If you go this route, I hope it goes well.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I'm pretty sure we have ich...i think. No idea where it came from. Haven't added anyone new in about 3 weeks and everyone gets QT first. I have a 75 gal with 2 black clowns, a yellow clown goby, a royal gramma, a splendid pintail fairy wrasse, and a snowflake eel. I also have a coral banded shrimp, a skunk cleaner shrimp and various snails and hermit crabs for CUC. Right now all of the fish are eating very well and are very active. I saw the Royal Gramma rub against the rocks a couple times about a week ago, but could not see anything on her. Tested the water and everything was fine, but did a good water change just in case. She didn't do it again after the water change so I thought maybe there had been something about the water that was bothering her. Everyone has been acting normal. Now I can see a couple white spots on the wrasse's fins and on the gramma when the light hits her just right. And I just now saw her rub on the sand. I know I need to pull everyone out and place them in QT for proper treatment and leave the tank fallow for 76 days. The problem is that I am going out of town for a couple weeks in about 6 weeks so I dont have 76 days to quarantine and treat everyone AND get them back into the tank before I go. I currently have a healthy Tomini Tang in my QT that I was prepping to go in the DT in a couple weeks so I will have to set up a second QT for the rest of my fish for treatment. My dad will be watching our house/animals while we are gone and while he is very responsible, I don't want to put more on him by having to manage the DT with the shrimp, mulitple QTs and having to do semi-frequent water changes on a the "sick fish" QT. My thought was to leave the fish in the DT (obviously will not introduce in the Tomini) just for the time being and manage the ich until we get home from our trip, then move them to QT where I can properly treat them. What, if anything, can I treat the DT with to lessen the effects of the Ich on my fish and keep it manageable until I can put them in QT in November. I know there are no cures other than copper, just looking for input on anything that may help manage until copper treatment in QT is possible. I know there are certain things eels and wrasses can be sensitive to so I would appreciate any input.

Please post pics and videos under white lighting of tank and fish
What you mentioned sounds good- can touch up later ( out to dinner) yum

 

[Littlewolf]

Please post pics and videos under white lighting of tank and fish
What you mentioned sounds good- can touch up later ( out to dinner) yum

 

[Littlewolf]

here's a not so great video of the wrasse. Just turned the pumps back on after feeding so there's lots of stuff flying around. I will try to get a video of the gramma, but i think she put herself to bed. You can sort of see the white spots when he turns and the light hits his fins. I noticed today too that his tail looks a little beat up. He and the gramma have been having it out a bit I think since the gramma has decided to move into his cave.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I don't think that's ich on the wrasse. It might be flukes. However, that clown looks to be covered in Brooklynella. See what other say.

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[Littlewolf]

I don't think that's ich on the wrasse. It might be flukes. However, that clown looks to be covered in Brooklynella. See what other say.

​

I was originally thinking flukes due to how the gramma was acting and not seeing any visible spots on her. It also doesn't have the typical "covered in salt" look that I'm used to seeing with ich. Its inly really visible on their fins. I have prazipro at the ready if need be.

As far as the clowns go, I can try to get another video. I've been keeping a close eye on them all for the last 10 days or so since I saw the gramma acting weird and the clowns haven't changed. I thought he looked a little funny too, but theyve both been acting completely normal and it hasnt changed or gotten worse at all. Both clown have huge appetites and that hasn't changed either.

 

[vetteguy53081]

here's a not so great video of the wrasse. Just turned the pumps back on after feeding so there's lots of stuff flying around. I will try to get a video of the gramma, but i think she put herself to bed. You can sort of see the white spots when he turns and the light hits his fins. I noticed today too that his tail looks a little beat up. He and the gramma have been having it out a bit I think since the gramma has decided to move into his cave.

The wrasse has what appears to be typical markings but fish also distant in video. The clowns appear to have brook (unconfirmed ) as I need still pics to clearly see and make proper assessment. Agree if Tomini is clear with no symptoms and eating - Do not move it from current location and risk potential infection.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I had some major battles with ich, and to be honest, I never saw it on grammas, but they ended up dead just the same. I suspect their gills were infected. Some fish have a thicker coating, and it's harder to see it on them. The white spots you see is not the actual parasite, but "mucus around the insertion points of each individual parasite- on the fish."

 

[Littlewolf]

The wrasse has what appears to be typical markings but fish also distant in video. The clowns appear to have brook (unconfirmed ) as I need still pics to clearly see and make proper assessment. Agree if Tomini is clear with no symptoms and eating - Do not move it from current location and risk potential infection.

here's a video of the clowns. little buggers are quick so it's hard to get pictures. As I mentioned above, I've been keep an eye on all of them since I noticed the gramma rubbing. I thought the clown looked "fuzzy" when i turned the white light on (looks completely normal with just the regular lighting), but has shown no signs of illness and eats like a pig. It's been about 10 days since I first noticed the gramma acting unusual so I've been turning the white lights on daily to check everyone and the clown has looked the same the whole time. Super active, no rubbing or hiding, begs for food constantly. Since I have the Tang in QT, I didn't have anywhere to move anyone so I've just been looking for signs of disease progression or even minor changes in behavior before buying and setting up another tank. Ive never dealt with brook before (thankfully), but Ive read it progresses very quickly usually. Shouldn't there have been a change by now if that's what it is?

 

[vetteguy53081]

here's a video of the clowns. little buggers are quick so it's hard to get pictures. As I mentioned above, I've been keep an eye on all of them since I noticed the gramma rubbing. I thought the clown looked "fuzzy" when i turned the white light on (looks completely normal with just the regular lighting), but has shown no signs of illness and eats like a pig. It's been about 10 days since I first noticed the gramma acting unusual so I've been turning the white lights on daily to check everyone and the clown has looked the same the whole time. Super active, no rubbing or hiding, begs for food constantly. Since I have the Tang in QT, I didn't have anywhere to move anyone so I've just been looking for signs of disease progression or even minor changes in behavior before buying and setting up another tank. Ive never dealt with brook before (thankfully), but Ive read it progresses very quickly usually. Shouldn't there have been a change by now if that's what it is?

Yes they move around a lot and I had to play back a few times. Looking at size and location of dots- Im sold on the dots being there and appear to be ich UNLESS . . . there are dots all over the glass.
You can safely add Ruby rally Pro to the tank which is reef safe and will address velvet, bacterial issue, brooklynella and other symptoms.

 

[Littlewolf]

Yes they move around a lot and I had to play back a few times. Looking at size and location of dots- Im sold on the dots being there and appear to be ich UNLESS . . . there are dots all over the glass.
You can safely add Ruby rally Pro to the tank which is reef safe and will address velvet, bacterial issue, brooklynella and other symptoms.

I was reading about Ruby Reef Rally last night actually and was going to ask about it so I'll get some of that ordered. I obviously want to do whatever I need to to get them healthy. I just hate that we have this trip coming up so it limits my quarantining ability. I've had the one clown (Yahtzee) for over 2 years and the other one (Domino) for over a year. Same with the gramma (Lizzie). Very attached to them.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was reading about Ruby Reef Rally last night actually and was going to ask about it so I'll get some of that ordered. I obviously want to do whatever I need to to get them healthy. I just hate that we have this trip coming up so it limits my quarantining ability. I've had the one clown (Yahtzee) for over 2 years and the other one (Domino) for over a year. Same with the gramma (Lizzie). Very attached to them.

In addition to Ruby Rally, maintain good water quality and diet. Flakes and pellets are not a full diet.
Frozen such as LRS fish frenzy- small plankton - Formula 1 are good additions

 

[Pickle_soup]

When you get back, make sure to keep your tank free of fish for 76 days. I did this 8 years ago, and I have not seen ich in my tank. I never QTed my fish previously because I was an impatient dummy, but now, everything does into quarantine, snails, crabs, corals, etc...All in qt for 76 days. It is so nice to see happy 8-year-old tangs swimming around with not a single care. And one of those tangs is a Powder Blue.

 

[Littlewolf]

In addition to Ruby Rally, maintain good water quality and diet. Flakes and pellets are not a full diet.
Frozen such as LRS fish frenzy- small plankton - Formula 1 are good additions

Right now the parameters are zero for ammonia and nitrite, nitrate was at 10 yesterday, phosphate wasn't detectable with my kit (need a better one), pH 8.2, dkh 10 and salinity 1.025. I alternate/mix brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, marine cuisine, reef plankton, fish eggs, and formula one. New life spectrum pellets once or twice a week. I also hatch baby brine shrimp as an occasional treat for them. I also have a metric **** ton of copepods in the tank which the wrasse seems to love.

 

[Littlewolf]

When you get back, make sure to keep your tank free of fish for 76 days. I did this 8 years ago, and I have not seen ich in my tank. I never QTed my fish previously because I was an impatient dummy, but now, everything does into quarantine, snails, crabs, corals, etc...All in qt for 76 days. It is so nice to see happy 8-year-old tangs swimming around with not a single care. And one of those tangs is a Powder Blue.

I think it was a dang snail that did it. I brought home a couple astrea the same time as the tang and plopped them into the tank not even really thinking about it because I was so worried about getting the Tomini into QT. Plus the LFS keeps their crabs and snails separate so I figured it would be safe enough. Could kick myself if I was flexible enough.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That does appear to be ich. It is right on the edge of maybe being able to manage it or not. If they were my fish, I would opt to treat in a hospital tank.

If you want to try ich management, here is what I wrote up on that:


“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.



The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.



1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.

2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.

3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.

4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.

5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.

6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.



Jay

 

[Littlewolf]

That does appear to be ich. It is right on the edge of maybe being able to manage it or not. If they were my fish, I would opt to treat in a hospital tank.

If you want to try ich management, here is what I wrote up on that:


“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.



The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.



1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.

2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.

3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.

4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.

5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.

6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.



Jay

Thank you Jay. I appreciate the added information. Treating in a hospital tabk is what I would do at any other time, but with going on vacation in a couple weeks, I just can't leave multiple tanks to my dad to manage, especially since they will need water changes more frequently being that theyre smaller and uncycled. I plan to hospitalize everyone when we get back and let the tank run fallow. I know that snowflake eels are not susceptible to ich, but I've read varying opinions on whether they need to be removed from the tank as well for it to be truly fallow. What is your thought on this?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you Jay. I appreciate the added information. Treating in a hospital tabk is what I would do at any other time, but with going on vacation in a couple weeks, I just can't leave multiple tanks to my dad to manage, especially since they will need water changes more frequently being that theyre smaller and uncycled. I plan to hospitalize everyone when we get back and let the tank run fallow. I know that snowflake eels are not susceptible to ich, but I've read varying opinions on whether they need to be removed from the tank as well for it to be truly fallow. What is your thought on this?

Eels getting ich is kind of unclear scenario. What happens is somebody posts, "eels don't get ich" and then that gets parroted around the Internet, true or not. My personal opinion is that they are resistant to it, but that they still need to be removed/treated for a tank to be truly fallow.

Jay