Ick ... hospital tank for the first time

[nathansreef11]

Hey r2r ,
My blue throat trigger and kole tang have came down with ick . At least that's what it looks like if anyone has any other ideas please let me know ...

I've been in the hobby for about a year and a half now and have been running two tanks without a qt set up . One is an sr80 and the other is a 50 gallon cube. I know I should have all along but I've just tried to wing it and buy healthy fish from reputable stores that quarantine and generally have good practices on there end . Well I've finally gotten unlucky and am setting up a hospital tank tonight that I will keep running as my quarantine tank from here on out . I've done quite a bit of research but just wanted advice and to make sure I'm doing things right the first time .
Here's what I have
- 20 gallon long tank
- heater
-small powerhead
-aquaclear 50
-ammonia alert badge

My plan is to take the water from my 80 along with a few little sponges I have seeded in the back of the tank and add the two fish . After the fish get settled I'm going to add a half dose of cupramine and be sure to watch ammonia . I will do 25% water changes biweekly or as needed .
Is there anything else I should plan to do, or need to watch out for ?

 

[CarrieB]

Do you have any other fish in the DT? Are you planning on leaving the DT fishless for 76 days to eliminate the ich?

 

[nathansreef11]

Do you have any other fish in the DT? Are you planning on leaving the DT fishless for 76 days to eliminate the ich?

Yes I have two clowns that will also be added to the qt they both look great still . All fish are eating as usual and don't seem stressed out but I know this can go downhill very fast . Yes I'm leaving the display fishless for the full 76 days

 

[ngoodermuth]

Hey r2r ,
My blue throat trigger and kole tang have came down with ick . At least that's what it looks like if anyone has any other ideas please let me know ...

I've been in the hobby for about a year and a half now and have been running two tanks without a qt set up . One is an sr80 and the other is a 50 gallon cube. I know I should have all along but I've just tried to wing it and buy healthy fish from reputable stores that quarantine and generally have good practices on there end . Well I've finally gotten unlucky and am setting up a hospital tank tonight that I will keep running as my quarantine tank from here on out . I've done quite a bit of research but just wanted advice and to make sure I'm doing things right the first time .
Here's what I have
- 20 gallon long tank
- heater
-small powerhead
-aquaclear 50
-ammonia alert badge

My plan is to take the water from my 80 along with a few little sponges I have seeded in the back of the tank and add the two fish . After the fish get settled I'm going to add a half dose of cupramine and be sure to watch ammonia . I will do 25% water changes biweekly or as needed .
Is there anything else I should plan to do, or need to watch out for ?

Plan looks good. I would add some PVC hidey-holes to your list. Your bio-load will be pretty high for 20g, so make sure you are vigilant for ammonia spikes, double check your badge with a test kit every few days.

Also, remember when you do water changes to dose your clean sw with copper before adding it to your tank so you keep a constant level. Good luck!

 

[Humblefish]

Plan looks good. I would add some PVC hidey-holes to your list. Your bio-load will be pretty high for 20g, so make sure you are vigilant for ammonia spikes, double check your badge with a test kit every few days.

Also, remember when you do water changes to dose your clean sw with copper before adding it to your tank so you keep a constant level. Good luck!

+1

 

[nathansreef11]

Plan looks good. I would add some PVC hidey-holes to your list. Your bio-load will be pretty high for 20g, so make sure you are vigilant for ammonia spikes, double check your badge with a test kit every few days.

Also, remember when you do water changes to dose your clean sw with copper before adding it to your tank so you keep a constant level. Good luck!

Thanks so much ! One more question ... should the copper be added to the tank prior to fish being put in or should I slowly dose it to the tank?

 

[4FordFamily]

Plan looks good. I would add some PVC hidey-holes to your list. Your bio-load will be pretty high for 20g, so make sure you are vigilant for ammonia spikes, double check your badge with a test kit every few days.

Also, remember when you do water changes to dose your clean sw with copper before adding it to your tank so you keep a constant level. Good luck!

X2

 

[4FordFamily]

Thanks so much ! One more question ... should the copper be added to the tank prior to fish being put in or should I slowly dose it to the tank?

Slowly increase dose to the tank. Over 4-5 days.

Also those photos are in fact ich.

 

[nathansreef11]

Slowly increase dose to the tank. Over 4-5 days.

Also those photos are in fact ich.

Ok great thanks for the advice

 

[nathansreef11]

About to put water in . One last question should I only use the established tanks water or put in some fresh saltwater as well ?

 

[Humblefish]

About to put water in . One last question should I only use the established tanks water or put in some fresh saltwater as well ?

It actually would be best to use all new saltwater, so long as temp & SG matches the DT. However, you can use DT water if that will get the fish into QT faster.

 

[nathansreef11]

It actually would be best to use all new saltwater, so long as temp & SG matches the DT. However, you can use DT water if that will get the fish into QT faster.

I did not know that ... just a guess but is the reasoning so there is no ick in its free floating stage in the quarantines water ? Or something else ?

 

[Humblefish]

I did not know that ... just a guess but is the reasoning so there is no ick in its free floating stage in the quarantines water ? Or something else ?

Yes, water coming from your DT will likely contain active theronts (free swimmers) so the fish will just keep getting bombarded.

By using all new saltwater, the fish will have a "clean slate" going into QT. You'll have 72 hrs to get the copper up to therapeutic before worrying about your fish being reinfected by the "next wave" of free swimmers. Only 48 hrs if this is velvet.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-copper-window.294484/

 

[cmcoker]

Yes, water coming from your DT will likely contain active theronts (free swimmers) so the fish will just keep getting bombarded.

By using all new saltwater, the fish will have a "clean slate" going into QT. You'll have 72 hrs to get the copper up to therapeutic before worrying about your fish being reinfected by the "next wave" of free swimmers. Only 48 hrs if this is velvet.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-copper-window.294484/

What about the seeded media from the display? Isn't that able to contain the cysts.. Should it be added or just use biospira or stability etc?

 

[Humblefish]

What about the seeded media from the display? Isn't that able to contain the cysts.. Should it be added or just use biospira or stability etc?

If coming from an infected DT, then it absolutely can contain both tomonts and theronts. But its a risk analysis. Just how mature/well seeded is that tainted bio-media (which will help control ammonia) vs. how much "bacteria in a bottle" can you dose before the copper level needs to be raised? Using DT water offers very little biological benefit, other than possibly getting a fish into QT sooner and the cost savings. A sponge which has been stewing in your sump for months might be worth the risk because it affords you with an instant working bio-filter.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Just to add... If you need to raise copper (or CP) in QT ASAP, and don't have time to dose bacteria in a bottle before copper kills the bacteria as soon as they hit the water do this:

Place your filter's bio-media (ex. sponge) in a small bucket and seed it there for 4-5 days before adding to your QT. Dose your favorite live nitrifying bacteria product every day, and use an airstone or small powerhead to circulate the water. 4-5 days won't give you a "strong" working bio-filter, but it is still something.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

 

[nathansreef11]

^^ Just to add... If you need to raise copper (or CP) in QT ASAP, and don't have time to dose bacteria in a bottle before copper kills the bacteria as soon as they hit the water do this:

Place your filter's bio-media (ex. sponge) in a small bucket and seed it there for 4-5 days before adding to your QT. Dose your favorite live nitrifying bacteria product every day, and use an airstone or small powerhead to circulate the water. 4-5 days won't give you a "strong" working bio-filter, but it is still something.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

Ok so as of now I have all 4 of the fish in hospital tank they have been there for about a half hour . I put the sponge from the dt in the tank and started with fresh saltwater ... I'm hoping that the sponge is enough to partially combat ammonia . Do you think is is wise to use bacteria from a bottle on a routine with this tank or will watching ammonia closely and waterchanges will be ok ?

At the moment I haven't put any copper in the tank . Is that something that needs to be put in immediately or something that should wait until tomorrow .

As a little update . All the fish seem to be settling in and kind of checking out there new space . I fed before putting in the tank and as before all the fish ate like pigs .

Sorry for all the questions I really just don't want to mess this up ...

 

[nathansreef11]

^^ Just to add... If you need to raise copper (or CP) in QT ASAP, and don't have time to dose bacteria in a bottle before copper kills the bacteria as soon as they hit the water do this:

Place your filter's bio-media (ex. sponge) in a small bucket and seed it there for 4-5 days before adding to your QT. Dose your favorite live nitrifying bacteria product every day, and use an airstone or small powerhead to circulate the water. 4-5 days won't give you a "strong" working bio-filter, but it is still something.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

As far as the link it was great information and along the lines of what I had read before ... Just unsure of if all these methods could be used in conjunction for the best results .

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Be very careful with ph drop in the new tank. Sometimes I think it's very stressful to try and "cure" a fish with ich. If you're not going to take every single fish out for several months I feel you are wasting your time in a big big way and risking the lives of the fish you're taking out. Copper treatment is not for the novice, neither is hypo. You have to watch ammonia and ph constantly in addition hope your refractometer is properly calibrated. In addition, you must must must be able to properly read the copper test kits because the dose needed to kill ich in relation to the dose that will hurt your fish is very close. Think of copper as chemo, if you mess it up you're going to kill something.

If this is the first time you're doing this (sounds like it is) I can assure you that you are likely to kill a fish or two learning the process. I prefer the TTM IF I was going to treat because I loathe copper treatments and have my doubts it will help the long term health of the fish. I almost think the fish has a better long term chance by utilizing proper diet. My first hippo before my major tank crash was 7 years old but when I got him he looked like he was dipped in salt it was so bad. I focused on using selcon/garlic and a very healthy diet and he turned out great and grew to be huge 7 years later.

If I were you I would just focus on making sure your fish eat alot. Invest in selcon and soak the food daily in it before feeding. Also use garlic to promote appetite and you will be amazed.

Also, if you don't plan on QTing corals and inverts in the future then they can bring ich into the tank too. Having been down this route I have had the best success feeding my fish and making sure they are fat as can be. Dr G's medicated fish eggs also work wonders to cure fish through diet.

 

[nathansreef11]

Be very careful with ph drop in the new tank. Sometimes I think it's very stressful to try and "cure" a fish with ich. If you're not going to take every single fish out for several months I feel you are wasting your time in a big big way and risking the lives of the fish you're taking out. Copper treatment is not for the novice, neither is hypo. You have to watch ammonia and ph constantly in addition hope your refractometer is properly calibrated. In addition, you must must must be able to properly read the copper test kits because the dose needed to kill ich in relation to the dose that will hurt your fish is very close. Think of copper as chemo, if you mess it up you're going to kill something.

If this is the first time you're doing this (sounds like it is) I can assure you that you are likely to kill a fish or two learning the process. I prefer the TTM IF I was going to treat because I loathe copper treatments and have my doubts it will help the long term health of the fish. I almost think the fish has a better long term chance by utilizing proper diet. My first hippo before my major tank crash was 7 years old but when I got him he looked like he was dipped in salt it was so bad. I focused on using selcon/garlic and a very healthy diet and he turned out great and grew to be huge 7 years later.

If I were you I would just focus on making sure your fish eat alot. Invest in selcon and soak the food daily in it before feeding. Also use garlic to promote appetite and you will be amazed.

Also, if you don't plan on QTing corals and inverts in the future then they can bring ich into the tank too. Having been down this route I have had the best success feeding my fish and making sure they are fat as can be. Dr G's medicated fish eggs also work wonders to cure fish through diet.

I do plan to keep the fish in quarantine for an extended period of time to ensure my dt can no longer have the ick parasite and allow the tank and fish to start with a clean slate . I know that copper is potentially very harmful to fish and can kill your fish easily if improperly dosed/ used that's why I am so hesitant to put it in and or use it .

To your other point I haven't used selcon but it seems to be a pretty good product after taking a look at it . I use garlic on a somewhat regular basis to "boost" the immune systems of the fish .

For now I will not add any more corals, but I am going to set up a quarantine next week for all new inverts and coral . I really want to do my best to take the extra preventative measures from here on out to ensure this wont happen again . " I recently added a colony of zoas and am pretty certain that has something to do with the fish getting sick as it was the only new addition for about the last 3 weeks .

Question ... say god forbid your tank broke out with some kind of parasite what would be your go to plan ? continue to give a balanced diet and allow the fish to combat the illness on its own or do the TTM . honestly that's where I was with my tank was in a great spot and all the fish were very healthy and then all the sudden boom, the dreaded white spots popped up and o knew I had to act somewhat quickly and do something to try and hopefully save my fish .

There is so many trains of thought in this hobby and to me most of them make a lot of sense in their own ways . It's crazy to me how many different ways people have success with reef's . For me it's difficult to choose between methods in basically anything because there is so much mixed feedback throughout the whole hobby and nearly zero perfect concise ways of handling our most common issues .

Thank you so much if your insight and knowledge .