Ick ... hospital tank for the first time

[2Wheelsonly]

I have never ever lost a fish to ich, I have had velvet and it made it past my QT process. Once you see symptoms of velvet it's usually too late. I have lost more fish in this hobby trying to treat them when I over react. People often confuse ich and velvet as they look very similar. Ich does not kill fast and I'm convinced through my personal experience that fish that die from it have other issues that compound the problem.

When people say they had sudden ich outbreaks I don't think they realize it was in their system. Could have been water params that caused a stress event and immune system couldn't fight it off. Sometimes fish have existing liver damage from acclimation that may just now be taking its toll. What about chemicals potentially used to catch them?

If you think about your typical blue tang or trigger. A few months ago it could have been swimming in the ocean and then changed hands 15 times before it made it to your tank. When we see what lengths people go just to acclimate properly to avoid long term health issues who's to say every single person that touched that fish before you did?

I believe in QT to monitor but I treat with meds as a last resort. I monitor for bad stuff like velvet and such. I won't ever use copper for ich and while it's not a popular opinion I will let a pbt with ich in the display knowing my fish are healthy and I know if my fancy tang is eating in QT then ich won't be an issue.

I only lost fish due to tank wide wipes caused from flat worm toxins/ velvet due to poor qt procedures or random rare jumpers or over reacting and treating in hospital tanks (why I stopped).

In MY opinion ich is rediculously overplayed in this hobby but I respect people's opinions that differ from mine.

 

[Humblefish]

Ok so as of now I have all 4 of the fish in hospital tank they have been there for about a half hour . I put the sponge from the dt in the tank and started with fresh saltwater ... I'm hoping that the sponge is enough to partially combat ammonia . Do you think is is wise to use bacteria from a bottle on a routine with this tank or will watching ammonia closely and waterchanges will be ok ?

At the moment I haven't put any copper in the tank . Is that something that needs to be put in immediately or something that should wait until tomorrow .

I would start slowly adding copper to the QT. Take 4-5 days to get it up to full therapeutic. Once the copper level starts being raised, I wouldn't worry about using bacteria in a bottle because the copper will just kill most of the bacteria as soon as it hits the water. Only bacteria already embedded in bio-media will survive copper.

 

[nathansreef11]

I have never ever lost a fish to ich, I have had velvet and it made it past my QT process. Once you see symptoms of velvet it's usually too late. I have lost more fish in this hobby trying to treat them when I over react. People often confuse ich and velvet as they look very similar. Ich does not kill fast and I'm convinced through my personal experience that fish that die from it have other issues that compound the problem.

When people say they had sudden ich outbreaks I don't think they realize it was in their system. Could have been water params that caused a stress event and immune system couldn't fight it off. Sometimes fish have existing liver damage from acclimation that may just now be taking its toll. What about chemicals potentially used to catch them?

If you think about your typical blue tang or trigger. A few months ago it could have been swimming in the ocean and then changed hands 15 times before it made it to your tank. When we see what lengths people go just to acclimate properly to avoid long term health issues who's to say every single person that touched that fish before you did?

I believe in QT to monitor but I treat with meds as a last resort. I monitor for bad stuff like velvet and such. I won't ever use copper for ich and while it's not a popular opinion I will let a pbt with ich in the display knowing my fish are healthy and I know if my fancy tang is eating in QT then ich won't be an issue.

I only lost fish due to tank wide wipes caused from flat worm toxins/ velvet due to poor qt procedures or random rare jumpers or over reacting and treating in hospital tanks (why I stopped).

In MY opinion ich is rediculously overplayed in this hobby but I respect people's opinions that differ from mine.

I guess being in the hobby for the short period of time I have "1.5 years" nearly every single time the word ick has been said it is portrayed as an instant fish killer . I do now realize that's not the case . I do think that if the fish has already began to show signs of ick on its surface (not just one or two spots, but nearly covered) something should be done.

I 100% agree with you that ick generally will not kill the fish in a couple days and it is due to many other factors . But the way I look at that how do I know my fish will be able to overcome the parasite , along with all of the other sicknesses that could compound to in the end kill them . If they are already weakened enough for ick I guess I feel it's my job to step in and try to make it better before it gets worse .

With How many steps these fish go to just to end up in our tanks it's honestly pretty impressive that more fish aren't riddled with sickness.

With the ick in the display I would be so worried that the parasite would spread to the rest of the fish and 100s to 1000s just down the drain , but more importantly my fish not making it . I completely respect and see where your coming from . Personally once I saw the fish look the way it did I felt guilty for not having a qt/ hospital tank up and ready to go "because it's the right way to do things" obviously this is nothing more than a somewhat educated guess but I do not believe my trigger would have made it with good diet and a stable tank alone . I tried to wait about two days to watch the change and each time I looked at my tank the trigger got worse . One thing I do try to tell myself is to not overreact . Good things don't happen quick in this hobby and generally bad things take a bit of time as well.

Btw I will 100% use some of your advice and thank you again for the help !

 

[nathansreef11]

I would start slowly adding copper to the QT. Take 4-5 days to get it up to full therapeutic. Once the copper level starts being raised, I wouldn't worry about using bacteria in a bottle because the copper will just kill most of the bacteria as soon as it hits the water. Only bacteria already embedded in bio-media will survive copper.

Ok great that was my thought with copper and the bacteria just wanted to be sure... Thank you again !

 

[4FordFamily]

I have never ever lost a fish to ich, I have had velvet and it made it past my QT process. Once you see symptoms of velvet it's usually too late. I have lost more fish in this hobby trying to treat them when I over react. People often confuse ich and velvet as they look very similar. Ich does not kill fast and I'm convinced through my personal experience that fish that die from it have other issues that compound the problem.

When people say they had sudden ich outbreaks I don't think they realize it was in their system. Could have been water params that caused a stress event and immune system couldn't fight it off. Sometimes fish have existing liver damage from acclimation that may just now be taking its toll. What about chemicals potentially used to catch them?

If you think about your typical blue tang or trigger. A few months ago it could have been swimming in the ocean and then changed hands 15 times before it made it to your tank. When we see what lengths people go just to acclimate properly to avoid long term health issues who's to say every single person that touched that fish before you did?

I believe in QT to monitor but I treat with meds as a last resort. I monitor for bad stuff like velvet and such. I won't ever use copper for ich and while it's not a popular opinion I will let a pbt with ich in the display knowing my fish are healthy and I know if my fancy tang is eating in QT then ich won't be an issue.

I only lost fish due to tank wide wipes caused from flat worm toxins/ velvet due to poor qt procedures or random rare jumpers or over reacting and treating in hospital tanks (why I stopped).

In MY opinion ich is rediculously overplayed in this hobby but I respect people's opinions that differ from mine.

There are certain fish that cannot fight off ich. Acanthurus tangs being among them. Some hippo, bristletooth, and zebrasoma genus tangs often can. Velvet, as you said, is a very different story. It's also every bit as common as ich. If you bank on net getting velvet and not qt'ing -- you'll lose. Unfortunately in today's day and age it's everywhere.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

There are certain fish that cannot fight off ich. Acanthurus tangs being among them. Some hippo, bristletooth, and zebrasoma genus tangs often can. Velvet, as you said, is a very different story. It's also every bit as common as ich. If you bank on net getting velvet and not qt'ing -- you'll lose. Unfortunately in today's day and age it's everywhere.

Nowhere and I mean nowhere did I mention I don't agree with QT. I said I don't go into over-react nuke mode with copper when I see ich. I think you read that I go against the norm and don't treat ich with copper and put it in your head that I don't QT.

As I was saying I QT because of velvet. It's a killer and once fish have it they won't usually survive it and it spreads like wildfire. It's a tank killer; ich is not. We are in complete agreement when it comes to QT. Without it you WILL get hit with velvet and it's heartbreaking to see fish die from it.

 

[4FordFamily]

Nowhere and I mean nowhere did I mention I don't agree with QT. I said I don't go into over-react nuke mode with copper when I see ich. I think you read that I go against the norm and don't treat ich with copper and put it in your head that I don't QT.

As I was saying I QT because of velvet. It's a killer and once fish have it they won't usually survive it and it spreads like wildfire. It's a tank killer; ich is not. We are in complete agreement when it comes to QT. Without it you WILL get hit with velvet and it's heartbreaking to see fish die from it.

I didn't say you don't qt, I know what you meant. I'm ensuring the casual reader understands what you and I do.

I also feel that it's a ticking time bomb -- managing ich. I've lived it. But velvet is in an entirely different league, I agree.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Judging by your profile pic I would assume you're used to dealing with more exotic fish than me that may also be much harder to keep so I respect your opinion on ich. I will note for other readers; I am just saying what has worked for me and that I personally have never lost a fish to ich since I started around 2008. It is important for me to mention that Anthias, Blue Hippos and Powder Blues are the most "exotic" fish I have kept which to an advanced fish keeper would be considered very basic and that most likely contributes to my experiences.

 

[4FordFamily]

Judging by your profile pic I would assume you're used to dealing with more exotic fish than me that may also be much harder to keep so I respect your opinion on ich. I will note for other readers; I am just saying what has worked for me and that I personally have never lost a fish to ich since I started around 2008. It is important for me to mention that Anthias, Blue Hippos and Powder Blues are the most "exotic" fish I have kept which to an advanced fish keeper would be considered very basic and that most likely contributes to my experiences.

Powder blues are one of the most susceptible to even common ich of any fish, literally 1/100 can survive in "ich management" tanks. I've kept many fish in ich management tanks for some time, but personally I find this to be unethical now, especially that I see my fish thriving.

No judgment though, I did it for years, too

 

[Humblefish]

Also (just to add), many aquarists can't tell the difference between marine ich & velvet... until it's painfully apparent and too late.