Ick or velvet?

jeff williams · Feb 23, 2017

Ick or velvet Some of the bigger spots are food floating in the tank there the ones that are noticeable larger. The pics don't really show to well but the fish are covered the Mollie shows best the amount of spots

Oscar47f · Feb 23, 2017

It looks like ich... regardless you should start hypo salinity, or copper treatments and regardless of method soak the food in selcon or a vitamin boost of some sort and feed that.

ZoaCollector · Feb 23, 2017

Chances are it's both, but treatment is roughly the same

jeff williams · Feb 23, 2017

Oscar47f said:
It looks like ich... regardless you should start hypo salinity, or copper treatments and regardless of method soak the food in selcon or a vitamin boost of some sort and feed that.

Started seachem paraguard 10 days ago at first sign of flashing and scratching and it definitely has gotten worse but I think that's due to the excysting and been feeding pellet and mysis brine mix soaked in garlic was going to add some metroplex to the food also. Any thoughts on this treatment

Oscar47f · Feb 23, 2017

Ive never used the stuff i usually do hypo salinity as soon as i get the fish but i would follow the instruction on it and see it through... I would also soak in selcon because its a broader arrangement of amino acids and fatty acids but garlic may work too... and mysis is good as long as they're eating its a good sign i think..

Brew12 · Feb 23, 2017

Definitely looks like Ich. There are really 3 ways to effectively eliminate it. You either need to treat with copper, CP (chloroquine phosphate), or use TTM (Tank Transfer Method). Whichever course you take you need to use it on every fish that has shared water with these two.
You can read up on all 3 methods using links found here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-index.247573/

Humblefish · Feb 23, 2017

Some of those spots look irregular shaped, so I'm wondering if it could actually be flukes. A FW dip would confirm: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.214/

If flukes come off during the FW dip, treat with Prazipro. If no flukes show, treat for ich as advised by @Brew12.

jeff williams · Feb 23, 2017

Brew12 said:
Definitely looks like Ich. There are really 3 ways to effectively eliminate it. You either need to treat with copper, CP (chloroquine phosphate), or use TTM (Tank Transfer Method). Whichever course you take you need to use it on every fish that has shared water with these two.
You can read up on all 3 methods using links found here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-index.247573/

Thank you

jeff williams · Feb 23, 2017

Humblefish said:
Some of those spots look irregular shaped, so I'm wondering if it could actually be flukes. A FW dip would confirm: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.214/

If flukes come off during the FW dip, treat with Prazipro. If no flukes show, treat for ich as advised by @Brew12.

Couple nights ago they were covered really bad so I did a fresh water dip on them I didn't notice anything come off because the container I used was clear but the spots still remained on the fish, however the next day they looked a lot better no as many spots. I appreciate all you guys taken time to help thank you. I would like to ask one more question and that is I started seachem paraguard at the 1 st sign of flashing/scratching (no visible spots) it's been 11 days treating I was planning on seeing the treatment time through (28 days seachem advised) and if that don't work switch to copper. I'm also going to add some metroplex to there food (waiting for it to arrive ) gimmie your thoughts on this if you don't mind!

Humblefish · Feb 23, 2017

@jeff williams Paraguard is at best a formalin replacement; but even formalin won't completely eradicate a ciliated protozoan.

I would forget the Paraguard and move on to copper. You can mix Prazipro w/copper to address the possibility of flukes.

jeff williams · Mar 14, 2017

Humblefish said:
@jeff williams Paraguard is at best a formalin replacement; but even formalin won't completely eradicate a ciliated protozoan.

I would forget the Paraguard and move on to copper. You can mix Prazipro w/copper to address the possibility of flukes.

So Prazipro can be used at the same time you have copper in the water? If so will it require a different dose? And finally were angles are sensitive to copper would you still recommend use both at the same time?

Humblefish · Mar 14, 2017

jeff williams said:
So Prazipro can be used at the same time you have copper in the water? If so will it require a different dose? And finally were angles are sensitive to copper would you still recommend use both at the same time?

Yes; although it is less than ideal to do so because a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) can occur. Dosage would be the same.

I would probably avoid mixing the two with angels (if possible), because copper is already stressful enough on them.

jeff williams · Apr 26, 2017

Update after 30 days of paraguard then
3 weeks of copper which I had to stop treatment because my biological filter stopped and I was doing 50% water changes every day I went to ttm today is the 4 transfer and the fish haven't been scratching and so forth. I think I finally (hopefully) got ick kicked.
This has been a long qt and by the way my first not because I didn't believe in qt but these are the first fish I've ever owned, my DT has been up and running since the end of December it's all brand new and never had a fish in it. I would like to thank humblefish melypr1985 you guys stickies and articles were very helpful and I appreciate you taking time to help everyone. Also there's many other people that helped and I thank you as well.
Ps. Just for piece of mind I'm gonna do 1 more transfer lol

Brew12 · Apr 26, 2017

jeff williams said:
3 weeks of copper which I had to stop treatment because my biological filter stopped and I was doing 50% water changes every day I went to ttm today is the 4 transfer and the fish haven't been scratching and so forth. I think I finally (hopefully) got ick kicked.

jeff williams said:
Ps. Just for piece of mind I'm gonna do 1 more transfer lol

I'm glad things are finally working out for you!

Just so you know you would have been fine not doing ttm after pulling them out of copper after 3 weeks. 14 days in copper followed by transfer to a sterilized QT works very well. That said, as long as the transfers aren't causing stress issues with your fish there is nothing wrong with doing them as an added precaution.

jeff williams · Apr 26, 2017

Brew12 said:
I'm glad things are finally working out for you!

Just so you know you would have been fine not doing ttm after pulling them out of copper after 3 weeks. 14 days in copper followed by transfer to a sterilized QT works very well. That said, as long as the transfers aren't causing stress issues with your fish there is nothing wrong with doing them as an added precaution.

I was hoping 14 days in copper would have done it but it didn't they started scratching and flashing about 3 days later. They were in copper 3 weeks but only at thereputic levels the last 14 days I brought cu levels up slow because of the angel fish

Brew12 · Apr 26, 2017

jeff williams said:
I was hoping 14 days in copper would have done it but it didn't they started scratching and flashing about 3 days later. They were in copper 3 weeks but only at thereputic levels the last 14 days I brought cu levels up slow because of the angel fish

TTM sounds like the right choice then. Only the time at the therapeutic level counts. The 14 days should have been enough but not worth risking if you saw additional symptoms.

melypr1985 · Apr 26, 2017

I'm glad you are almost there! The next QT is likely to be much easier for you since you've learned a lot with this first one.

jeff williams · Apr 26, 2017

melypr1985 said:
I'm glad you are almost there! The next QT is likely to be much easier for you since you've learned a lot with this first one.

I hope I went in with a qt plan thought I had it all figured out and learned the only thing I could count on was you guys

jwshiver · Apr 26, 2017

jeff williams said:
Started seachem paraguard 10 days ago at first sign of flashing and scratching and it definitely has gotten worse but I think that's due to the excysting and been feeding pellet and mysis brine mix soaked in garlic was going to add some metroplex to the food also. Any thoughts on this treatment

I lost too many fish / $$$ using paraguard. It didn't faze velvet. I'll never use it again. I would stop the Paraguard and start with copper. I have had good luck with Seachem Cupramine. I don't know if you can mix paraguard and copper. I'm sure someone on this thread with way more knowledge than me on the subject can answer that. If you can't mix them, do a large water change and run some carbon to get it out. Then start copper.

jeff williams · Apr 26, 2017

jwshiver said:
I lost too many fish / $$$ using paraguard. It didn't faze velvet. I'll never use it again. I would stop the Paraguard and start with copper. I have had good luck with Seachem Cupramine. I don't know if you can mix paraguard and copper. I'm sure someone on this thread with way more knowledge than me on the subject can answer that. If you can't mix them, do a large water change and run some carbon to get it out. Then start copper.

Ya I ran a full 30 days with paraguard and all it done was control it it did not cure it. Paraguard cannot run with copper!!! It has to run by itself.