Ick or velvet?

[4FordFamily]

Alright I'm going against the grain here -- the small size of the spots in photos two and three, and what I know about angels and velvet-- I'm almost positive velvet is at least part of the issue.

I don't think it looks like ich at all, personally. In fairness to all of us, blurry photos make it difficult to ID -- but with them being as numerous as you describe and the general appearance of that angel I would be running copper for sure.

 

[jeff williams]

Alright I'm going against the grain here -- the small size of the spots in photos two and three, and what I know about angels and velvet-- I'm almost positive velvet is at least part of the issue.

I don't think it looks like ich at all, personally. In fairness to all of us, blurry photos make it difficult to ID -- but with them being as numerous as you describe and the general appearance of that angel I would be running copper for sure.

This was an update post the fish went through copper for 14 days and the signs were gone but it came back and my bio filter stopped working nitrites were crazy hi so I started a ttm and haven't noticed any scratching or flashing since the 2nd transfer then just had there 4 th transfer today of it were velvet they would be goners by now !

 

[4FordFamily]

This was an update post the fish went through copper for 14 days and the signs were gone but it came back and my bio filter stopped working nitrites were crazy hi so I started a ttm and haven't noticed any scratching or flashing since the 2nd transfer then just had there 4 th transfer today of it were velvet they would be goners by now !

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling that once you're done with TTM it'll return.

Crossing my fingers for you!

 

[jeff williams]

I hope you're right, but I have a bad feeling that once you're done with TTM it'll return.

Crossing my fingers for you!

I'm assuming that ttm would not help with velvet and they would continue to get worse or at best stay the same what's your thoughts on ttm and velvet? I know ttm won't cure velvet but do you think a fish with velvet that goes through ttm would show an improvement? I kinda think 3 days is to far apart and at best would still show signs or get worse. What ya think?

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm assuming that ttm would not help with velvet and they would continue to get worse or at best stay the same what's your thoughts on ttm and velvet? I know ttm won't cure velvet but do you think a fish with velvet that goes through ttm would show an improvement? I kinda think 3 days is to far apart and at best would still show signs or get worse. What ya think?

I think it can help velvet, but it won't cure it.

 

[Brew12]

I'm assuming that ttm would not help with velvet and they would continue to get worse or at best stay the same what's your thoughts on ttm and velvet? I know ttm won't cure velvet but do you think a fish with velvet that goes through ttm would show an improvement? I kinda think 3 days is to far apart and at best would still show signs or get worse. What ya think?

With TTM and velvet you will greatly slow the rate at which the parasite infection increases. So yes, it can show improvement but you would need to get very lucky for it to eliminate velvet. It would take near daily TTM to do that.

 

[jeff williams]

I'm glad you are almost there! The next QT is likely to be much easier for you since you've learned a lot with this first one.

Well if you remember this post my fish were doing great after the last transfer on ttm I decided to do 1 more transfer to get them in a tank that had a bio filter established I made the transfer today and several hours later my coral beauty and my yellow striped gobie died I also had a Mollie she still alive but looks sick.
All water was 24 hrs old had been circulating with a HOB and a air stone SG was same as old water ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 my ph made a big jump from 7.8 to 8.4 and I didn't check it I thought it would be the same as every other time I transferred I'm at a loss as to why the ph jumped so high. I think that's what killed my angel and gobie. The Mollie I'm guessing being brackish is more tolerant of ph swings. As soon as I found them dead and checked the water I stopped the air stone hoping ph would stabilize. Gimmie your thoughts on this the ph difference being the killer and what I might expect to happen with the Mollie.

 

[Brew12]

Well if you remember this post my fish were doing great after the last transfer on ttm I decided to do 1 more transfer to get them in a tank that had a bio filter established I made the transfer today and several hours later my coral beauty and my yellow striped gobie died I also had a Mollie she still alive but looks sick.
All water was 24 hrs old had been circulating with a HOB and a air stone SG was same as old water ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 my ph made a big jump from 7.8 to 8.4 and I didn't check it I thought it would be the same as every other time I transferred I'm at a loss as to why the ph jumped so high. I think that's what killed my angel and gobie. The Mollie I'm guessing being brackish is more tolerant of ph swings. As soon as I found them dead and checked the water I stopped the air stone hoping ph would stabilize. Gimmie your thoughts on this the ph difference being the killer and what I might expect to happen with the Mollie.

I'm so sorry to hear that!

I really doubt that the pH swing itself was the cause but it may be indicative of the problem. Are you positive that the salinities were matched? pH is going to be a function of Alkalinity and CO2 content. Since I'm guess you aren't dosing any Alk to your QT systems, and they should be using the same air, the next most likely cause is high salinity.

I would also say it is possible that you have an algae converting the CO2 to O2 and raising pH but that would be unusual for a QT system.

 

[melypr1985]

Well if you remember this post my fish were doing great after the last transfer on ttm I decided to do 1 more transfer to get them in a tank that had a bio filter established I made the transfer today and several hours later my coral beauty and my yellow striped gobie died I also had a Mollie she still alive but looks sick.
All water was 24 hrs old had been circulating with a HOB and a air stone SG was same as old water ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 my ph made a big jump from 7.8 to 8.4 and I didn't check it I thought it would be the same as every other time I transferred I'm at a loss as to why the ph jumped so high. I think that's what killed my angel and gobie. The Mollie I'm guessing being brackish is more tolerant of ph swings. As soon as I found them dead and checked the water I stopped the air stone hoping ph would stabilize. Gimmie your thoughts on this the ph difference being the killer and what I might expect to happen with the Mollie.

I agree with Brew. It's unlikely that the PH is the reason for the deaths. There must be something else that happened.

 

[jeff williams]

Well the SG I doubled checked it was right on tank was completely clean no algea the only thing different was the ph

 

[Brew12]

Well the SG I doubled checked it was right on tank was completely clean no algea the only thing different was the ph

That is really odd. I'll try to think of other issues that could cause low CO2 in your system which would lead to high pH.

 

[melypr1985]

Maybe they were injured while being caught and transferred?

 

[jeff williams]

I agree with Brew. It's unlikely that the PH is the reason for the deaths. There must be something else that happened.

How much of a salinity change is lethal. Im guessing the Angel and gobie would also be less tolerant to SG change but would it kill them? Do you think big ph changes have less affects than SG ?

That is really odd. I'll try to think of other issues that could cause low CO2 in your system which would lead to high pH.

well the air stone running high and air rating the water I think would cause it wouldn't it. The only thing I done differently was I added seachems stability after the fish went in the tank but I only dosed 5 mls and I can't imagine bacteria having an adverse affect

Maybe they were injured while being caught and transferred?

tramsfer went really smooth the only other think I can think of is the Mollie killed them but l don't think that happened she's been very mellow and a good tank mate

 

[melypr1985]

How much of a salinity change is lethal. Im guessing the Angel and gobie would also be less tolerant to SG change but would it kill them? Do you think big ph changes have less affects than SG ?

Anything more than 0.001 difference can be dangerous. Some fish will tolerate a bigger difference in salinity better than others of course. I don't think PH will effect the fish near as much as the SG will.

ramsfer went really smooth the only other think I can think of is the Mollie killed them but l don't think that happened she's been very mellow and a good tank mate

I doubt the molly did anything to the other fish. They are rather passive fish. I'm a bit stumped. The only thing I can think of now is that maybe your refractometer is off a bit.

 

[jeff williams]

Anything more than 0.001 difference can be dangerous. Some fish will tolerate a bigger difference in salinity better than others of course. I don't think PH will effect the fish near as much as the SG will.

I doubt the molly did anything to the other fish. They are rather passive fish. I'm a bit stumped. The only thing I can think of now is that maybe your refractometer is off a bit.

Wow I had no idea a 0.001 could be dangerous well honestly that could have been it cus I've been using an SG meter not a Refractometer and I do know that the SG will vary a bit when using this method

 

[Brew12]

How much of a salinity change is lethal. Im guessing the Angel and gobie would also be less tolerant to SG change but would it kill them? Do you think big ph changes have less affects than SG ?

Fish tend to tolerate a drop in salinity much better than an increase. I would worry about a .002 increase but would have no issue dropping .002.

pH has very little direct impact on fish. It does cause some toxicity issues with ammonia but doesn't have a direct impact. For instance, if you receive a fish shipped overnight, that fish sees some major pH swings. It was probably bagged at a pH around 8. As it consumed the oxygen in the water and turned it into CO2 it can drop under 7. If you drip acclimate it will go back up to 8.0 or higher in 15 minutes and won't directly hurt the fish. In this example the danger to the fish is the less harmful ammonium being converted to ammonia at the higher pH's. So no, the pH swing itself isn't the issue. Understanding the cause of the swing might be.

well the air stone running high and air rating the water I think would cause it wouldn't it. The only thing I done differently was I added seachems stability after the fish went in the tank but I only dosed 5 mls and I can't imagine bacteria having an adverse affect

No, that sounds like a smart move to me. Unless the Stability had gone rancid this should only have had positive results.

 

[melypr1985]

I've been using an SG meter not a Refractomete

I think we found your problem. If the SG increased a little too much then that could be a problem. those swing arm hydrometers are pretty much useless junk unfortunately.

 

[4FordFamily]

I think we found your problem. If the SG increased a little too much then that could be a problem. those swing arm hydrometers are pretty much useless junk unfortunately.

X2.

Sorry for your losses

 

[Brew12]

I think we found your problem. If the SG increased a little too much then that could be a problem. those swing arm hydrometers are pretty much useless junk unfortunately.

+1

If you have an alkalinity test set it would be an easy check. If your alkalinity tests higher in the new water than the old water you can pretty much confirm a dangerous increase in salinity.

IMO the floating bulb type hydrometers are great followed by conductivity meters. Refractometers are very good when used with a calibration fluid. Swing arm hydrometers should be banned.

 

[jeff williams]

I looked to see if the stability has to be refrigerated and I can see when it has to. Also just to clarify the ph in the tank didn't start at 7.8 and rise to 8.4 what I ment was every time I've checked my ph its at 7.8 then I set up this other tank to transfer the fish into added new salt water it circulated for 9-10 hrs then I added the fish after they died I checked the ph and it was at 8.4 why it swans this hi is what I can't figure out unless it was the heavy air ration of the air stone