Ick/velvet only at night?

[MnFish1]

Its not recommended to treat your display tank with copper - it gets adsorbed onto the rocks, etc - and impossible to get proper levels (or almost impossible) + puffers are sensitive to copper

 

[DLHDesign]

You've got a FOWLR tank, so you could (in theory) treat the fish in the DT. The biggest challenge will be that rocks and sand will absorb (and then leach out) copper. This makes reaching a stable, controlled level very difficult (if not impossible)...

I don't think you have velvet - the spots seem too large and it likely would have killed fish by now. So that's good news!

Ich can be managed in the tank - just need to keep everyone healthy and the tank stable. Seems like you're skirting the edge of that right now, so you have some time to set things up. If you have a sump, I suggest adding some filter floss or filter foam. Not to try and clean anything, but the goal is to provide an area for bacteria growth that won't impact your chemical levels. Give those areas some time to seed (1-2wks, ideally) and then remove all of your rock. At that point, you can start to dose in copper; rising it slowly until you reach the desired levels. Hold that for 30 days and you should have an ich-free tank. You can use carbon to remove the copper at this point.
For the rocks; you have two options:
1) Move them into a storage container (brute trash can, etc.) with new salt water, a heater, and a small pump (you can also add some carbon to remove the copper they might have already absorbed). Leave them in there for at lest 72 days. You can dose in some ammonia if you like, but that won't be required per-se. After the 72 days, the rock will also be clean of ich and can be replaced back into the DT.
2) Get some new rock. Ideally, something that you know is ich-free (dry rock, for example). Cure the rock (if it's dead) and/or cycle it (if it's live) while the DT is being treated with copper. Once the copper is all removed from the DT, you can add this rock back in.
In either case, leave the filter floss/foam in the DT for a month or two to allow the bacteria to transfer back into the rock in enough quantity to handle your bio-load.
For the sand; It's far easier to just remove it and replace it with new sand once the tank is clean. You could add it into the storage container in #1 above, but it generally just makes a mess when you try...

All that being said, it would be better to set up a dedicated QT system to treat the fish if that is what you want to do. QT systems are typically smaller and easier to control than larger, DT tanks. Be sure to read this post as well.

 

[bcournoyer5]

@bcournoyer5 It seems that you have multiple threads created in the past week or so indicating various issues with most of your fishes. In those threads, it sounds like there may be some misunderstanding of treatments like adding copper and your fish being cured of ich/velvet. Could you please post a full tank shot of your aquarium? Please also include a full list of the fishes in the tank and an estimate of when they were introduced. Could you describe any quarantining/acclimation process that the fish have gone through? Basically whatever you did with the fish between your fish store and the display tank. I'd like to get an accurate depiction of the fish in the tank, the symptoms each is exhibiting, and then we can discuss the steps necessary to get all of your fish healthy and happy. Thanks!

PS: In other posts, you've mentioned the fish exhibiting symptoms of ich which "always goes away after a little copper dosed in the tank" and that you "dosed the tank again a few minutes ago with the rest of the copper medication". I'm not sure how much copper has been dosed at this point but it sounds like a possibility that too much copper has been added to the tank. Also, I would never add copper to tank that has a puffer in it. I'm not sure if the puffer is in the same tank as the tangs but if you provide the information I requested above, we'll all get a better idea of the situation.

Powder Blue: 6months ago
Blue Tang: 4 months ago
Small clown: 1 year
Two large clowns: 6 months
Sailfin tang: 6 months
Chromis: 6 months
Flame angel: 1 year
Yellow tang: 8months
Kole: 4 months
Puffer: 6 months
Valentini puffer: 9 months
Six line wrasse: 5 days
Naso: two weeks

I always do temperature acclimation for 35 minutes, drip acclimation for 2 hours, then transfer fish into bucket of tank water. Then transfer into tank, about a 4 hour process. I have never had a qt tank because of cost and resources. All fish have been healthy until now. Ich has always went away on its own since I take great care of my tank. I run carbon on my tank so copper does make an exit rather soon. Thank you for your help!

 

[DLHDesign]

Ich has always went away on its own since I take great care of my tank.

Ich has never gone away - it is still in your tank. What you may have done in the past is knock the parasites population down enough that you can't see visible signs of it on the surface of the fish, but it's still there in their gills, in the water, and on the rocks and sand.

 

[bcournoyer5]

@bcournoyer5 It seems that you have multiple threads created in the past week or so indicating various issues with most of your fishes. In those threads, it sounds like there may be some misunderstanding of treatments like adding copper and your fish being cured of ich/velvet. Could you please post a full tank shot of your aquarium? Please also include a full list of the fishes in the tank and an estimate of when they were introduced. Could you describe any quarantining/acclimation process that the fish have gone through? Basically whatever you did with the fish between your fish store and the display tank. I'd like to get an accurate depiction of the fish in the tank, the symptoms each is exhibiting, and then we can discuss the steps necessary to get all of your fish healthy and happy. Thanks!

PS: In other posts, you've mentioned the fish exhibiting symptoms of ich which "always goes away after a little copper dosed in the tank" and that you "dosed the tank again a few minutes ago with the rest of the copper medication". I'm not sure how much copper has been dosed at this point but it sounds like a possibility that too much copper has been added to the tank. Also, I would never add copper to tank that has a puffer in it. I'm not sure if the puffer is in the same tank as the tangs but if you provide the information I requested above, we'll all get a better idea of the situation.

Please see the post I just put in my thread (thought I was replying to you but accidentally put it in the thread) my apologies

 

[DLHDesign]

In light of the puffer being in the tank, you'll want to raise your copper very slowly. I've heard that cupramine is best to use with puffers, but let's pull in a few more of the #reefsquad to also help as puffers are not something I have a lot of experience with...

 

[pluikens]

Please see the post I just put in my thread (thought I was replying to you but accidentally put it in the thread) my apologies

You replied to me just fine. I'm going to have to defer to others if anyone is suggesting ich management. My suggestion would be to set up something like a 40 breeder for QT to treat the fish, letting your DT go fallow for 76 days before reintroducing them.

 

[pluikens]

In light of the puffer being in the tank, you'll want to raise your copper very slowly. I've heard that cupramine is best to use with puffers, but let's pull in a few more of the #reefsquad to also help as puffers are not something I have a lot of experience with...

I always check the fish treatment charts to see what treatment is compatible with each fish. With cupramine being ionic copper, I would stay away from using it with the puffer and would treat with chloroquine phosphate.

 

[pluikens]

Please see the post I just put in my thread (thought I was replying to you but accidentally put it in the thread) my apologies

Are you at all open to finding another tank which you could set up with minimal equipment to run as a quarantine tank?

 

[pluikens]

Are you at all open to finding another tank which you could set up with minimal equipment to run as a quarantine tank?

Or moving your rock and sand to a bucket of heated water for 76 days while you treat the fish in your display tank?

 

[bcournoyer5]

Or moving your rock and sand to a bucket of heated water for 76 days while you treat the fish in your display tank?

What if I take all my sand and rock out, treat the tank with copper, once 30 days rolls around, I put new rock and sand back in. Will that work?

 

[MnFish1]

Or moving your rock and sand to a bucket of heated water for 76 days while you treat the fish in your display tank?

Not sure you can do this without adequate water and circulation - and the bacteria in the rock will die without some kind of food...

 

[pluikens]

Not sure you can do this without adequate water and circulation - and the bacteria in the rock will die without some kind of food...

You're right, I should have been more detailed. If he were to go down this path, I would suggest a powerhead, aeration, and ghost feeding.

 

[MnFish1]

What if I take all my sand and rock out, treat the tank with copper, once 30 days rolls around, I put new rock and sand back in. Will that work?

if you are going to use dead rock when you put it back in - and if you can be sure that you got every bit of copper out of your display before you did that - which is hard without multiple water changes - There is a reason people go through the trouble of setting up a 40 gallon tank etc etc to do this. it may also be that you could add a UV sterilizer and limit the parasite some - and that your fish are becoming immune (or are already partially immune).

 

[DLHDesign]

What if I take all my sand and rock out, treat the tank with copper, once 30 days rolls around, I put new rock and sand back in. Will that work?

As @pluikens mentioned; chloroquine phosphate (CP) would be safer to use because of the puffer. If you can't get ahold of this, then make sure to raise the copper levels very slowly and monitor the puffer for signs of distress.
With the additional caveat that you'll want to remove the copper with carbon, yes - that plan would work (in general).

the bacteria in the rock will die without some kind of food...

The bacteria will survive, some of it will just go dormant. The bucket/tank can also be "ghost fed" (with a piece of raw shrimp or else some ammonia) as well.

 

[MnFish1]

As @pluikens mentioned; chloroquine phosphate (CP) would be safer to use because of the puffer. If you can't get ahold of this, then make sure to raise the copper levels very slowly and monitor the puffer for signs of distress.
With the additional caveat that you'll want to remove the copper with carbon, yes - that plan would work (in general).


The bacteria will survive, some of it will just go dormant. The bucket/tank can also be "ghost fed" (with a piece of raw shrimp or else some ammonia) as well.

Yep - thats what I meant. Carbon doesn't do a great job removing copper - cuprisorb will though.

 

[MnFish1]

As @pluikens
The bacteria will survive, some of it will just go dormant. The bucket/tank can also be "ghost fed" (with a piece of raw shrimp or else some ammonia) as well.

BTW what I was referring to is putting a bunch of rock into a bucket without adequate water volume , flow and feeding will cause other stuff to 'die' thats on the rock. which will increase ammonia etc etc etc - and just merely putting this back into a tank with fish could be a big problem.

 

[pluikens]

There will also be the matter of the equipment left in the DT during the chloroquine phosphate (CP) or copper treatment. I don't introduce any equipment that has been in a tank with copper into my DT. I would suggest removing any equipment that you don't want to replace once your copper/CP treatment is complete and you believe you have removed all traces of the treatment through water changes and cuprisorb.

 

[Big G]

In light of the puffer being in the tank, you'll want to raise your copper very slowly. I've heard that cupramine is best to use with puffers, but let's pull in a few more of the #reefsquad to also help as puffers are not something I have a lot of experience with...

I've put puffers through with Coppersafe and Copper Power. The key is great water quality; high quality food (no dry pellet or flake); very slowly raising the copper level 7-8 days using very small doses instead of large doses. Using a Hanna HL Copper Checker can make the difference in monitoring those increases and your final therapeutic level. I recommend 1.75 ppm.

 

[pluikens]

I would strongly recommend the copper checker from Hanna, especially in this case where you have some copper in the system already, some may have been absorbed, and you're changing the rock/sand which will change the copper level. Many variables in play here so just going by the amount of copper added to your system would be dangerous.