If Santa sent Jda an Apex "Controller" for Christmas!
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If I ever used one, it would be to monitor only. It should be called an aquarium Monitor, not a controller, but that is not as sexy. 
I don't need to control anything... I know how to set and tune a CaRx, have more reliable heater "controllers" in Ranco and Medusa that are industrial grade, do not care about pH or ORP. I have light timers that I don't need an app for. My Tunze pumps come with thingies that randomize them.
I use Askoll based pumps and Tunze products that rarely fail and all have redundancy, so even if something fails, my tank will run for a week or two without any issue. I have heaters in the sump and some hidden in the tank in case the return pump fails. A pair of Rancos or Medusas on each tank so that neither can make the tank too hot or too cold on it's own. Flow pumps on different circuits than the return so that if a circuit goes down, then everything still has flow.
I just do not trust my colonies and years worth of work to a buggy pseudo coding platform with cheap interfaces and probes. The weakest link is first a hobby grade temp or pH probe and then the second is the apex it's self. Even the "lab" grade probes that you can buy are still cheap hobby grade probes - price out a lab grade pH or temp probe and see.
For those of you who do not know, I am not tech adverse. Quite the contrary. I have a Bachelors and Masters in Computer Science and I have written more code that nearly anybody on the planet for a lot of high profile companies with the most recent being Google. Most of what I have is because of tech. I can do almost anything with a Ubuntu terminal and root access. I wrote my own reef controller on a MacMini using Ruby, J2EE and BASH using industrial probes and outlets. Being BSD based, it has full ssh ability for FULL remote functionality. I used best two-of-three algorithm to prevent bad readings. The probes were about $200 each and the outlets are like $250 for a pair. It backed it's self up to AWS and could run off of AWS if the Mini went down for a few hours and otherwise had ACTUAL/TRUE redundancy and stuff. I could change code and deploy without any downtime. After a few years, I stopped because it is just not good for much other than monitoring and if you choose equipment well, then monitoring is not a big deal. I put the code on GitHub - it should still be there, but I have not looked in years.
If I used a bunch of crap equipment, then I might want to monitor more than I do. I would probably want a flow meter if I had most DC pumps, or a calcium and alk monitor if I had a Jeabo dosing pump... or a salinity monitor if I had a cheap chinese ATO or AWC system.
I am 43. I am no fuddy-dud who hates tech. I know more about tech than most. My opinion that I do not want an Apex is rooted more firmly in knowing what it is NOT capable of than most people's opinion about what they ARE capable of. There is nothing "necessary" about it. If you WANT one, then go for it, just don't depend on it too much.
You can believe that if I thought that it was necessary or would give some value, then I would have them on each tank and probably a NIB on waiting in case something happened.
Lastly, I believe that the best tanks have "eyes on them" all the time. I wonder if an automated alk machine would be nice since I do test for alk quite often, but then I also wonder what might get missed if I take my eyes off of the tank and let a robot go to work. I am not sure about this one yet, but I will let you all work the bugs and issues out of the automated alk checkers for a few years while I decide. The more that you take yourself out of the way of your tank, the more risk that you risk your tank not doing well - this is the truth even though many believe that it is the other way around.
P.S. - I do use 20k Radium on the new tank that I am just now moving colonies into after 24 months... ugh! I hate moves. I am a m80 guy, so DE and Radium is my thing. Phoenix 14k is my go-to for DE.
I don't need to control anything... I know how to set and tune a CaRx, have more reliable heater "controllers" in Ranco and Medusa that are industrial grade, do not care about pH or ORP. I have light timers that I don't need an app for. My Tunze pumps come with thingies that randomize them.I use Askoll based pumps and Tunze products that rarely fail and all have redundancy, so even if something fails, my tank will run for a week or two without any issue. I have heaters in the sump and some hidden in the tank in case the return pump fails. A pair of Rancos or Medusas on each tank so that neither can make the tank too hot or too cold on it's own. Flow pumps on different circuits than the return so that if a circuit goes down, then everything still has flow.
I just do not trust my colonies and years worth of work to a buggy pseudo coding platform with cheap interfaces and probes. The weakest link is first a hobby grade temp or pH probe and then the second is the apex it's self. Even the "lab" grade probes that you can buy are still cheap hobby grade probes - price out a lab grade pH or temp probe and see.
For those of you who do not know, I am not tech adverse. Quite the contrary. I have a Bachelors and Masters in Computer Science and I have written more code that nearly anybody on the planet for a lot of high profile companies with the most recent being Google. Most of what I have is because of tech. I can do almost anything with a Ubuntu terminal and root access. I wrote my own reef controller on a MacMini using Ruby, J2EE and BASH using industrial probes and outlets. Being BSD based, it has full ssh ability for FULL remote functionality. I used best two-of-three algorithm to prevent bad readings. The probes were about $200 each and the outlets are like $250 for a pair. It backed it's self up to AWS and could run off of AWS if the Mini went down for a few hours and otherwise had ACTUAL/TRUE redundancy and stuff. I could change code and deploy without any downtime. After a few years, I stopped because it is just not good for much other than monitoring and if you choose equipment well, then monitoring is not a big deal. I put the code on GitHub - it should still be there, but I have not looked in years.
If I used a bunch of crap equipment, then I might want to monitor more than I do. I would probably want a flow meter if I had most DC pumps, or a calcium and alk monitor if I had a Jeabo dosing pump... or a salinity monitor if I had a cheap chinese ATO or AWC system.
I am 43. I am no fuddy-dud who hates tech. I know more about tech than most. My opinion that I do not want an Apex is rooted more firmly in knowing what it is NOT capable of than most people's opinion about what they ARE capable of. There is nothing "necessary" about it. If you WANT one, then go for it, just don't depend on it too much.
You can believe that if I thought that it was necessary or would give some value, then I would have them on each tank and probably a NIB on waiting in case something happened.
Lastly, I believe that the best tanks have "eyes on them" all the time. I wonder if an automated alk machine would be nice since I do test for alk quite often, but then I also wonder what might get missed if I take my eyes off of the tank and let a robot go to work. I am not sure about this one yet, but I will let you all work the bugs and issues out of the automated alk checkers for a few years while I decide. The more that you take yourself out of the way of your tank, the more risk that you risk your tank not doing well - this is the truth even though many believe that it is the other way around.
P.S. - I do use 20k Radium on the new tank that I am just now moving colonies into after 24 months... ugh! I hate moves. I am a m80 guy, so DE and Radium is my thing. Phoenix 14k is my go-to for DE.
BTW - I do not think that I have had a thread started about me before. I have been cussed out in PMs and in posts, had threads and posts locked and deleted, but not this. I am almost to an Internet Message Board BINGO... just a few more letters needed. I have not been banned by a board yet...
45ZoaGarden
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Your controller may have been $400 but it took thousands of dollars to learn how to program it LOL. “I went to college just to learn how to program my fish tank” ;HilariousIf I ever used one, it would be to monitor only. It should be called an aquarium Monitor, not a controller, but that is not as sexy.
I use Askoll based pumps and Tunze products that rarely fail and all have redundancy, so even if something fails, my tank will run for a week or two without any issue. I have heaters in the sump and some hidden in the tank in case the return pump fails. A pair of Rancos or Medusas on each tank so that neither can make the tank too hot or too cold on it's own. Flow pumps on different circuits than the return so that if a circuit goes down, then everything still has flow.
I just do not trust my colonies and years worth of work to a buggy pseudo coding platform with cheap interfaces and probes. The weakest link is first a hobby grade temp or pH probe and then the second is the apex it's self. Even the "lab" grade probes that you can buy are still cheap hobby grade probes - price out a lab grade pH or temp probe and see.
For those of you who do not know, I am not tech adverse. Quite the contrary. I have a Bachelors and Masters in Computer Science and I have written more code that nearly anybody on the planet for a lot of high profile companies with the most recent being Google. Most of what I have is because of tech. I can do almost anything with a Ubuntu terminal and root access. I wrote my own reef controller on a MacMini using Ruby, J2EE and BASH using industrial probes and outlets. Being BSD based, it has full ssh ability for FULL remote functionality. I used best two-of-three algorithm to prevent bad readings. The probes were about $200 each and the outlets are like $250 for a pair. It backed it's self up to AWS and could run off of AWS if the Mini went down for a few hours and otherwise had ACTUAL/TRUE redundancy and stuff. I could change code and deploy without any downtime. After a few years, I stopped because it is just not good for much other than monitoring and if you choose equipment well, then monitoring is not a big deal. I put the code on GitHub - it should still be there, but I have not looked in years.
If I used a bunch of crap equipment, then I might want to monitor more than I do. I would probably want a flow meter if I had most DC pumps, or a calcium and alk monitor if I had a Jeabo dosing pump... or a salinity monitor if I had a cheap chinese ATO or AWC system.
I am 43. I am no fuddy-dud who hates tech. I know more about tech than most. My opinion that I do not want an Apex is rooted more firmly in knowing what it is NOT capable of than most people's opinion about what they ARE capable of. There is nothing "necessary" about it. If you WANT one, then go for it, just don't depend on it too much.
You can believe that if I thought that it was necessary or would give some value, then I would have them on each tank and probably a NIB on waiting in case something happened.
Lastly, I believe that the best tanks have "eyes on them" all the time. I wonder if an automated alk machine would be nice since I do test for alk quite often, but then I also wonder what might get missed if I take my eyes off of the tank and let a robot go to work. I am not sure about this one yet, but I will let you all work the bugs and issues out of the automated alk checkers for a few years while I decide. The more that you take yourself out of the way of your tank, the more risk that you risk your tank not doing well - this is the truth even though many believe that it is the other way around.
P.S. - I do use 20k Radium on the new tank that I am just now moving colonies into after 24 months... ugh! I hate moves. I am a m80 guy, so DE and Radium is my thing. Phoenix 14k is my go-to for DE.
45ZoaGarden
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I run one in case I get a leak or equipment malfunction while I’m away and my wife is watching the tank.
SeaDweller
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Mine bricked btw. It sat idle for a while then I thought of using it again so I sent it to Neptune to fix, which they did, but they couldn’t tell me why it did, so I left it off again.
cFloor
Active Member
I see both sides of owning a controller. The heaters are the only piece of equipment my apex controls. Otherwise, I use it for monitoring which is especially helpful because I enjoy traveling often.
...it also controls my Doser for now until I get a caRx
...it also controls my Doser for now until I get a caRx
Abhishek
2500 Club Member
Funny thread ! People won’t let you be unless you buy an apex or a GHL or atleast some controller .
Well if anything @jda , I got a couple of reeflux cubes that may need a proper house as I don’t use 250s any more
. You might need to rewrite them .
Just so you know - one of them is Adam’s am pretty much sure and I shall get him to sign it if need be with silver ink
Well if anything @jda , I got a couple of reeflux cubes that may need a proper house as I don’t use 250s any more
. You might need to rewrite them .Just so you know - one of them is Adam’s am pretty much sure and I shall get him to sign it if need be with silver ink
Last edited:
Thales
Valuable Member
I don't get it the nuttyness around topics like this.
Controllers are tools, like everything else in the hobby. You don't need any of the tools, and you should only use them if you understand what they do, what they can't do, how that changes what you need to pay attention to, and you want to use them. There are no magic tools. There are reasons to use them, and reasons to not use them. A team sports sides kind of discussion about this is so weird, and is so often detrimental to the hobby and hobbyists. There are a million ways to skin a reef, and if someone tells you you need a particular piece of equipment to be successful, you should squint at them a lot.
Controllers are tools, like everything else in the hobby. You don't need any of the tools, and you should only use them if you understand what they do, what they can't do, how that changes what you need to pay attention to, and you want to use them. There are no magic tools. There are reasons to use them, and reasons to not use them. A team sports sides kind of discussion about this is so weird, and is so often detrimental to the hobby and hobbyists. There are a million ways to skin a reef, and if someone tells you you need a particular piece of equipment to be successful, you should squint at them a lot.
Bpb
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I use a black face one I bought used back in 2012. It’s not even hooked up to the internet. I programmed everything manually on the display. It’s just a light timer and temp controller. Everything else is AC or has it’s own native controller I use. They’re not essential to grow coral.
OP
OP
This post was only for fun. I know Jda doesn't like controllers. I do agree with some of the above, but I also think a controller is a valuable and useful piece of equipment especially with Acropora dominated systems.
Nobody is pushing anybody to "buy" a controller. That wasn't the intention of this thread. The title stated nothing about that. I was merely picking at Jda for fun and looking for his response. Everybody has their own way of doing things and I wanted to know if he would use a controller if Neptune sponsored him with one. That's all.
I went 3 years w/o an Apex and to be quite honest I'm happy to be installing another on my system specifically for text and email alerts, but also for other failsafe's. I do agree pH monitoring can be unreliable, however I find calibrated probes to be better than nothing at all. I have 3 different pH monitors and have tested them against others and have found the hobby grade double junction probes by Neptune to be fairly accurate. My Milwaukee monitor has been more consistent than my Pin Point. The Pin Point drifted a lot even after a recent calibration, but may have just got old. My Oakton EcoTestr pH 2 pocket meter is surprisingly accurate when compared with other meters. I feel that having pH control will be easier (for me specifically) to tune the reactor. Others have had success without any advanced equipment and that's great. For me...if something is available that will make my life easier then I try to take advantage of it.
I'm not at home all the time. I work 12 hour days/nights in a busy hospital. Having a text or email alert me to potential or current issues happening in real time only increases my chances of saving the corals. Having a controller perform simple functions or monitor things like heaters, ALK, pH, is merely another tool in my toolbox. As with anything, a smart reefer will check over or cross check his readings, equipment, and still keep eyes on the tank.
With that said...I'm glad I invested in another Apex controller. It gives me more piece of mind while I'm at work. I do want to apologize if this thread ruffled any feathers. We all have our own ways of running reef tanks. I now realize the word "Controller" is a sensitive word.
Nobody is pushing anybody to "buy" a controller. That wasn't the intention of this thread. The title stated nothing about that. I was merely picking at Jda for fun and looking for his response. Everybody has their own way of doing things and I wanted to know if he would use a controller if Neptune sponsored him with one. That's all.
I went 3 years w/o an Apex and to be quite honest I'm happy to be installing another on my system specifically for text and email alerts, but also for other failsafe's. I do agree pH monitoring can be unreliable, however I find calibrated probes to be better than nothing at all. I have 3 different pH monitors and have tested them against others and have found the hobby grade double junction probes by Neptune to be fairly accurate. My Milwaukee monitor has been more consistent than my Pin Point. The Pin Point drifted a lot even after a recent calibration, but may have just got old. My Oakton EcoTestr pH 2 pocket meter is surprisingly accurate when compared with other meters. I feel that having pH control will be easier (for me specifically) to tune the reactor. Others have had success without any advanced equipment and that's great. For me...if something is available that will make my life easier then I try to take advantage of it.
I'm not at home all the time. I work 12 hour days/nights in a busy hospital. Having a text or email alert me to potential or current issues happening in real time only increases my chances of saving the corals. Having a controller perform simple functions or monitor things like heaters, ALK, pH, is merely another tool in my toolbox. As with anything, a smart reefer will check over or cross check his readings, equipment, and still keep eyes on the tank.
With that said...I'm glad I invested in another Apex controller. It gives me more piece of mind while I'm at work. I do want to apologize if this thread ruffled any feathers. We all have our own ways of running reef tanks. I now realize the word "Controller" is a sensitive word.
Bpb
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It is a fun post. I just wanted to chime in. I however do think it’s cool that JDA made a reef controller out of commercial grade gear and a actual computer.
OP
OP
Ohh...forgot to add the other reason why I bought a controller. I wanted to see my pH graphs displayed on my Laptop so that I can fine tune the reactor more precisely.
OP
OP
I agree, I could not do that. That's above my skill level.
His response was a good one and I did learn two things. Jda is 43 and he would use the Apex for text and email alerts.
Bpb
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It is always interesting to speculate the age of some of the regulars. Some people are candid about being retirees but many are fairly ambiguousI agree, I could not do that. That's above my skill level.
His response was a good one and I did learn two things. Jda is 43 and he would use the Apex for text and email alerts.
Having a large baseline in tech has reaffirmed one basic thing that have been said for centuries but is too oft overlooked... control really is an illusion.
Design for redundancy, buy solid, reliable equipment and then you don't need to monitor anything or worry about failures... better to have stuff that does not fail than to get a text on shift and not be able to get home for 8 hours and be a wreck mentally the whole time.
Design for redundancy, buy solid, reliable equipment and then you don't need to monitor anything or worry about failures... better to have stuff that does not fail than to get a text on shift and not be able to get home for 8 hours and be a wreck mentally the whole time.
