Illegal to do service calls on certain tanks?

[Mo_man]

Hi guys, I hope this is the correct forum, if not if anyone can redirect me to the correct section I would greatly appreciate it. So here is the situation:

I was having a discussion with someone about sharks, specifically leapord sharks, we"re located in california and it is illegal to have any sharks smaller then 3 feet if I'm correct. So we started discussing about if we can get in trouble even if we just service someone tank who has leapord sharks smaller then 3 feet. He was saying that you can get in trouble for servicing tanks and to just stay away from those tanks and service calls but I told him it doesnt make sense if you just service a tank, I understand if you sell them or anything like that but does anyone know for sure if you can actually get in trouble for just servicing a tank? We got into a pretty heated debate about this and thought I would check on here since there are a lot of knowledgeable people. Thanks guys and gals.

 

[JoshH]

Well if you know it's illegal to keep one smaller than 3 feet and you service a system with one less than 3 feet then yes I would have to agree with your friend. @Katrina71 might have more insight to the legality of the issue...

 

[Katrina71]

Well if you know it's illegal to keep one smaller than 3 feet and you service a system with one less than 3 feet then yes I would have to agree with your friend. @Katrina71 might have more insight to the legality of the issue...

Not for CA law, but... typically if you have knowledge...you may be able to contact NOAA and get a specific answer.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Here's the bottom line...ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Regardless of whether or not you know it's legal or not, if caught, your butt is going to jail. I say that as a non-lawyer. I wouldn't touch this one. Walk away.

 

[JoshH]

Here's the bottom line...ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Regardless of whether or not you know it's legal or not, if caught, your butt is going to jail. I say that as a non-lawyer. I wouldn't touch this one. Walk away.

My thoughts as well.

 

[Hermie]

What's the law? Can you find the statutes?

 

[Katrina71]

Ok, did some reading. This is Federal. I would absolutely walk away.

 

[JPK]

Hey JoshH,
I am actually a CA Game Warden if you want to give me a PM I can talk to you about it. You wouldn’t necessarily be cited for the shark violation (possession), but it would basically be the same if you were working on anything else that was illegal, like servicing a car you know was stolen, etc.
Jason

 

[King Turkey]

I do not think the police are gonna hunt down the dude who cleans the tank just the owner. if you rely think they have the time money and recourses to hunt you down for an arrest than calli is one messed up place. all that considered is this your own business or someone else's if you are employed than you will not get arrested the owner will/ company will be sued not the lone worker that might not know the laws.

 

[redfishbluefish]

What's the law? Can you find the statutes?

The question isn't whether or not the law exists....the OP states the law exists. The question is whether or not his ignorance of the law can protect him, and the answer is NO!

 

[Katrina71]

There is no way I would risk losing my business for a tank.jmo

 

[King Turkey]

Hey JoshH,
I am actually a CA Game Warden if you want to give me a PM I can talk to you about it. You wouldn’t necessarily be cited for the shark violation (possession), but it would basically be the same if you were working on anything else that was illegal, like servicing a car you know was stolen, etc.
Jason

I hope you have better insight than me/ more reasonable. just seems weird if he is employed by someone that the worker gets in trouble not the business. of course unless he is the business I could see legal action.( being sued ticketed and such because he is in charge of operations)

 

[JPK]

I hope you have better insight than me/ more reasonable. just seems weird if he is employed by someone that the worker gets in trouble not the business. of course unless he is the business I could see legal action.( being sued ticketed and such because he is in charge of operations)

We would be concerned with the person who possessed the shark and where (who) they got it from. I don’t really want to get into right and wrong, but it may not look good for a service company if their regular client was cited for an prohibited species, especially if they had knowledge it was illegal, but the choice is theirs not mine.

 

[Hermie]

The question isn't whether or not the law exists....the OP states the law exists. The question is whether or not his ignorance of the law can protect him, and the answer is NO!

The law will determine whether or not servicing a tank is illegal versus owning the tank. So it's definitely a question.

 

[King Turkey]

We would be concerned with the person who possessed the shark and where (who) they got it from. I don’t really want to get into right and wrong, but it may not look good for a service company if their regular client was cited for an prohibited species, especially if they had knowledge it was illegal, but the choice is theirs not mine.

Thank you for being cool and informative!

 

[Mo_man]

Hi everyone, this was a lot more responsive then I expected lol just to clear up a few things

1. Me and my friend were having a conversation, this actually didnt happen, or not yet atleast
2. I was just confused as to how far the law would apply too, since the law I heard about is that it's illegal to have them so that's why servicing I was considering something to be different and didnt know if they have any sub sections to the law where servicing would be illegal etc.
3. I dont have a legit service business just a side job right now.


But thank you to everyone who commented and contributed, this was really knowledgable, and I think I agree with the examples given, it would just be like working on a car that was stolen etc.

 

[Kuzko]

Not to play devils advocate here but correct me if Im wrong..... Its only illegal to keep leopard sharks smaller than 3' if its from California waters? If the shark was imported from Mexico there are no protection laws on it there and they arent CITES worthy, so...... Is it actually illegal? The only way it would be illegal is if they could prove it came from the bay....

 

[saltyhog]

Not to play devils advocate here but correct me if Im wrong..... Its only illegal to keep leopard sharks smaller than 3' if its from California waters? If the shark was imported from Mexico there are no protection laws on it there and they arent CITES worthy, so...... Is it actually illegal? The only way it would be illegal is if they could prove it came from the bay....

All I could find on California law was under the fishing regulations and it is illegal to keep leopard sharks under 3 feet for consumption. It didn't refer to keeping them in an aquarium. I would think if that's the only law it would be a game and fish violation and a ticket for illegal size fish with confiscation. That's how it would work in my home state but who knows in Cali.

 

[siggy]

lots of folks keep fresh water fish from the great lakes that would be considered undersized. Big sporting goods stores do this to see if the fish are laying low in the tank or swimming and feeding. I would not want a legal 42" tiger musky in any sized tank.

 

[JPK]

Not to play devils advocate here but correct me if Im wrong..... Its only illegal to keep leopard sharks smaller than 3' if its from California waters? If the shark was imported from Mexico there are no protection laws on it there and they arent CITES worthy, so...... Is it actually illegal? The only way it would be illegal is if they could prove it came from the bay....

Hi Kuzko,

It sounds like this was a hypothetical question and I believe it has been answered. To try and quickly answer your question. It is unlawful in Mexico to keep any sport fish alive for ornamental purposes (aquarium) and it is unlawful to possess an undersize leopard shark in CA. Take a look at the Federal Lacey Act, this covers the regulations associated with importation of wildlife that is illegal. Now if this was taken commercially in Mexico and imported for the CA pet trade, there are potentially other issues.

If you would like to PM me, I can give you my number and we could talk about regulations.

All I could find on California law was under the fishing regulations and it is illegal to keep leopard sharks under 3 feet for consumption. It didn't refer to keeping them in an aquarium. I would think if that's the only law it would be a game and fish violation and a ticket for illegal size fish with confiscation. That's how it would work in my home state but who knows in Cali.

Saltyhog,

CA defines it as "Take" not human consumption related to eating. Taking an undersize leopard shark for food or to put in an aquarium is the same. The possession is illegal not why you possess it. When things are commercialized (exchange of $) things get more complicated. "Take" is defined in the Fish and Game Code section 86 as to Hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill or attempt to do so.

Another example of Take in Ca is you need a fishing license to take (catch and keep) a native snake, and there are limits on the number you can have. People are generally not eating snakes.

Jason