Illegal to do service calls on certain tanks?

[LARedstickreefer]

I’d bet that if the guy got busted, YOU would be questioned about what you KNEW and why you didn’t report it. I’m sure you would walk away fine, but the experience would probably be a bit traumatic.

 

[Jay Z]

Just do the simple thing. Decline the job and don’t talk to the co officer. Just politely decline and go about your business.

If you feel weird about working somewhere or on something, that is your gut telling your mind to walk away.

 

[MnFish1]

The question isn't whether or not the law exists....the OP states the law exists. The question is whether or not his ignorance of the law can protect him, and the answer is NO!

I didnt see a law stating its illegal to service a tank with sharks less than 3 feet. I guess I'm confused. If a window washer washes the windows of an illegal activities 'house' is he 'going to jail'? Is every friend of the owner of the tank who has viewed it (assuming they have the tank for people to view) - guilty of a crime?

That said - It is certainly illegal for people to keep leopard sharks less than 3 feet. Maybe the correct thing to do would be to 'educate' the homeowner - and since its 'illegal' - its probably 'illegal' for a reason - ie. why support someone (by servicing their tank) who is doing something 'illegal' and probably harmful to the species (whether you would get into trouble or not)?

 

[JoshH]

If a window washer washes the windows of a meth 'house' is he 'going to jail'? Is every friend of the owner of the tank who has viewed it (assuming they have the tank for people to view) - guilty of a crime?

If you know about it and don't report it certainly could be a crime in most states and provinces. Depends on whether or not they could prove you knew about it.

 

[JPK]

In reality I can not see the person servicing the tank getting into trouble unless there was some sort of conspiracy that occurred between tank service person and the owner related to the shark. Or if they delayed or obstructed the officer's investigation into the possession of the shark.

However, I can tell you from experience, that if the person who serviced the tank also helped with the stocking of any of the livestock into the tank, which is offered by many tank service vendors, and enforcement did not have get a straight answer to where the shark came from, we would be paying a visit to to the place of business of the service company to conduct a fish business inspection of records, livestock etc, Depending on the circumstances this could involve a search warrant.

 

[MnFish1]

If you know about it and don't report it certainly could be a crime in most states and provinces. Depends on whether or not they could prove you knew about it.

LOL yes - the illegal activities example was a stretch - . just like if you know who committed a murder or a robbery. But - according to this article - not reporting a crime in most states is 'not illegal' - but you can be charged with 'aiding and abetting a crime' - depending on the circumstance. Of course - just mentioning this for general interest - not to debate. I learned something:

Failure to Report a Crime - FindLaw

It's clear that you can be prosecuted for the things you do, but can you be prosecuted for something you fail to do as well? Find out more about the failure to report a crime and the potential consequences as well as related topics by visiting FindLaw's Criminal Charges section.

criminal.findlaw.com

 

[JoshH]

but you can be charged with 'aiding and abetting a crime' - depending on the circumstance

And this is kindof what I was referring to, it's one of those legal gray areas that I would just rather avoid all together. And ofcourse at the end of the day it's all up to the person to make a decision for themselves and weigh the potential, if unlikely risks involved with that choice.

 

[MnFish1]

And this is kindof what I was referring to, it's one of those legal gray areas that I would just rather avoid all together. And ofcourse at the end of the day it's all up to the person to make a decision for themselves and weigh the potential, if unlikely risks involved with that choice.

In thinking about it - I think its more a moral issue - not a legal issue (for the leopard shark tank) - why help someone harm a species.

 

[Jay Z]

All a co needs to hear is someone has something illegal. After that, your in the mix with it. You have to answer their questions. You think the police have some power? Upset a co and see what your left with. They are the ultimate authority.

 

[JoshH]

All a co needs to hear is someone has something illegal. After that, your in the mix with it. You have to answer their questions. You think the police have some power? Upset a co and see what your left with. They are the ultimate authority.

SO true, I've heard some scary stories of the things they can do.

 

[Jay Z]

SO true, I've heard some scary stories of the things they can do.

In Michigan if you get caught with a illegal animal they can seize your house, everything in the house, anything on the property, and anything they think may have been used, and then hold that until they get bored. Also don’t forget the fact most co’s around me have ar10’s ar15’s high capacity pistols, 1000yard plus can bangers, body armor, night vision and or thermal, drones, boats, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles. And that all in the truck. Like a mobile army.

Just 1 sled, boat, or 4 wheeler. They don’t all fit in the truck!

Luckily co’s I know are some of the coolest and laid back people. Until you lie......

 

[hart24601]

In thinking about it - I think its more a moral issue - not a legal issue (for the leopard shark tank) - why help someone harm a species.

I was thinking the same thing. What would the charges be? They have to cite a law and charges that would hold up in court, correct?

Keep in mind we are not talking about the person who bought the illegal animal or housing it or with any details about the animals at all. Just servicing the tank.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Hey JoshH,
I am actually a CA Game Warden if you want to give me a PM I can talk to you about it. You wouldn’t necessarily be cited for the shark violation (possession), but it would basically be the same if you were working on anything else that was illegal, like servicing a car you know was stolen, etc.
Jason

We would be concerned with the person who possessed the shark and where (who) they got it from. I don’t really want to get into right and wrong, but it may not look good for a service company if their regular client was cited for an prohibited species, especially if they had knowledge it was illegal, but the choice is theirs not mine.

Hi Kuzko,

It sounds like this was a hypothetical question and I believe it has been answered. To try and quickly answer your question. It is unlawful in Mexico to keep any sport fish alive for ornamental purposes (aquarium) and it is unlawful to possess an undersize leopard shark in CA. Take a look at the Federal Lacey Act, this covers the regulations associated with importation of wildlife that is illegal. Now if this was taken commercially in Mexico and imported for the CA pet trade, there are potentially other issues.

If you would like to PM me, I can give you my number and we could talk about regulations.



Saltyhog,

CA defines it as "Take" not human consumption related to eating. Taking an undersize leopard shark for food or to put in an aquarium is the same. The possession is illegal not why you possess it. When things are commercialized (exchange of $) things get more complicated. "Take" is defined in the Fish and Game Code section 86 as to Hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill or attempt to do so.

Another example of Take in Ca is you need a fishing license to take (catch and keep) a native snake, and there are limits on the number you can have. People are generally not eating snakes.

Jason

In reality I can not see the person servicing the tank getting into trouble unless there was some sort of conspiracy that occurred between tank service person and the owner related to the shark. Or if they delayed or obstructed the officer's investigation into the possession of the shark.

However, I can tell you from experience, that if the person who serviced the tank also helped with the stocking of any of the livestock into the tank, which is offered by many tank service vendors, and enforcement did not have get a straight answer to where the shark came from, we would be paying a visit to to the place of business of the service company to conduct a fish business inspection of records, livestock etc, Depending on the circumstances this could involve a search warrant.

I was reading through this thread thinking a lot of people are giving their opinion of the law, which can be very detrimental to the OP... Until I came across your posts. This is literally your field and I deeply appreciate the fact you provided your expertise.

 

[Silver14SS]

I was reading through this thread thinking a lot of people are giving their opinion of the law, which can be very detrimental to the OP... Until I came across your posts. This is literally your field and I deeply appreciate the fact you provided your expertise.

To piggy back off this - OP ask an attorney who practices in the applicable field. Might be a free consult or a small fee to get a definitive answer.

 

[Jay Z]

I was reading through this thread thinking a lot of people are giving their opinion of the law, which can be very detrimental to the OP... Until I came across your posts. This is literally your field and I deeply appreciate the fact you provided your expertise.

This is the problem with society today. Everyone has a opinion on how they think the law and rules should be interpreted.

 

[hart24601]

To piggy back off this - OP ask an attorney who practices in the applicable field. Might be a free consult or a small fee to get a definitive answer.

I would be curious what they would say as well. Seems that the burden of proof on the state would be extremely high to 1st find what law and crime to even charge but then to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the service company knew it the owner's activities were illegal - would have to get into proving the service company knew the various species 100% and laws and willingly then did not report to some authority again proving beyond a reasonable doubt they knew this information or that an aquarium servicing company needs to do that much research on every customer and the cleaning techs have to be trained on every law and species ID.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I would be curious what they would say as well. Seems that the burden of proof on the state would be extremely high to 1st find what law and crime to even charge but then to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the service company knew it the owner's activities were illegal - would have to get into proving the service company knew the various species 100% and laws and willingly then did not report to some authority again proving beyond a reasonable doubt they knew this information or that an aquarium servicing company needs to do that much research on every customer and the cleaning techs have to be trained on every law and species ID.

Hope they don’t link him to this thread

 

[hart24601]

Hope they don’t link him to this thread

Haha. With the questions and various information would probably exonerate him if anything. Of course I'm still not sure what the possible charge would even be.

 

[sfin52]

The question isn't whether or not the law exists....the OP states the law exists. The question is whether or not his ignorance of the law can protect him, and the answer is NO!

Op is no longer unaware of the law. Its no longer a valid excuse. If you know a law is being broken and hide that fact than you are just as guilty as the one commuting the act. I would not service the account.

 

[Silver14SS]

Op is no longer unaware of the law. Its no longer a valid excuse. If you know a law is being broken and hide that fact than you are just as guilty as the one commuting the act. I would not service the account.

Not knowing the law isn't a free pass You can still break a law while being unaware of it, "ignorance of law excuses no one."