Indonesia coral export halted?

[rkpetersen]

So, I was going to comment on all this is mute if the "Rumor" is not true....

Moot. (Sorry, couldn't resist; it's such a dumb word and it always reminds me of that Friends episode.)

 

[rkpetersen]

So, sounds like a disagreement or procedural issue or whatever between two government agencies. Could be trivial stuff and fixed tomorrow, or bigger and drag on for months. Doesn't sound like an actual intentional ban, although it will still have that effect until the situation is resolved.

 

[JaimeAdams]

*moot

(sorry...OCD)

Moot. (Sorry, couldn't resist; it's such a dumb word and it always reminds me of that Friends episode.)

My apologies to all of the English teachers (hope my brother doesn't see this) and the rest of you sticklers out there I've been a bit off today worrying about whether (correctly used) I am still going to have a job

 

[Tank2379]

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2018/05/04/update-from-indonesian-coral-trade-insider/

 

[BangedUp]

Hearing rumors that coral exports from Indonesia has been shut down. Any info on that?

Oceans are getting depleted, just think how much is being taken..... they had to do something before it was too late

Hearing rumors that coral exports from Indonesia has been shut down. Any info on that?

 

[wesman42]

Is it considered fake news if there are scientists publishing results in those countries that show a direct impact? I'm not saying this is the case here, but it appears (just from a quick Google Scholar search) that there's some impact in the Philippines from the anemone trade.

Here's Hawaii: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1011369015080

It states and I QUOTE: Indonesia developed a management plan for sustainable harvest of corals, but not for non-CITES listed species such as soft corals and fishes.

So what has changed since this article? Has it become non-sustainable in some way?

 

[Peng]

Does this mean both maricultured and wild corals from Indonesia are now banned? If so this would be a horrible news! Australian corals are wild and very hard to keep! Without importing some aquacultured stars like WD HW would never have come out.

 

[anit77]

Yes, that's exactly what this means. How long is anyone's guess at this point.

 

[JasReef]

This was posted earlier.
https://reefbuilders.com/2018/05/04/there-is-no-ban-on-indonesian-corals/

 

[shred5]

I agree completely. Even unified we'd still be a small voice. But we cant even unify.

I think part of it comes from divisions within the hobby -- theres no shortage of reefing forum posters who say "wild collected corals don't survive anyway". There are people selling frags for several hundred dollars, daydreaming about how much theyll get to raise prices. There are people who don't have tangs so they arent worried about bans on tangs. etc.

Its short sighted. As you correctly note, *everyone* in the hobby will be harmed by the continuing closures.

First they came for the tangs, but I didnt have tangs so I didnt speak up...

At the very least, our hobby and associated industries should speak with a unified voice, small as that voice would be.

This was posted earlier.
https://reefbuilders.com/2018/05/04/there-is-no-ban-on-indonesian-corals/

Well I do not think that is right because people there are saying it is a ban... We all seen the memo and different ones. Jake completely missed the Hawaii ban. Might be two different agencies that manage this but I am guessing no one is going to risk it till thy get it worked out between the two. Plus the way it sounds he is not up to date on Hawaii or Fiji.

Maybe I am wrong but I dont think so.

 

[shred5]

Oceans are getting depleted, just think how much is being taken..... they had to do something before it was too late

Fiji and Indonesia have banned even aqua-cultured corals. Studies show tang populations rising in Hawaii how are they being depleted.

 

[cgdcinc]

I would prefer to buy corals from a farm than have them taken from the ocean.
Just a personal preference.
Fish as well. Even if there were studies that say there are sustainable populations in the ocean. Unless they were outgrowing their environment and it couldn’t sustain the population. Then harvest some to help the corals thrive. Most of my corals were given to me from others fragging their corals, looking for someone to take them.
I know it would be much more expensive to buy corals. We have some great facilities in Florida that do this already.

 

[shred5]

I would prefer to buy corals from a farm than have them taken from the ocean.
Just a personal preference.
Fish as well. Even if there were studies that say there are sustainable populations in the ocean. Unless they were outgrowing their environment and it couldn’t sustain the population. Then harvest some to help the corals thrive. Most of my corals were given to me from others fragging their corals, looking for someone to take them.
I know it would be much more expensive to buy corals. We have some great facilities in Florida that do this already.

Wouldn't we all but the hobby is no where near close on the fish side yet unless you just want clowns and a few gobies. But with the loss of all the other fish there would be a shortage of them too.. A few aquaculture facilities is not enough to supply the mount of people in this hobby world wide. .

 

[cgdcinc]

Wouldn't we all but the hobby is no where near close on the fish side yet unless you just want clowns and a few gobies. But with the loss of all the other fish there would be a shortage of them too.. A few aquaculture facilities is not enough to supply the mount of people in this hobby world wide. .

ORA has quite the selection of fish. Biota is doing some nice work with fish as well. Aquaculture has come a long way. But of course not enough to supply the world for sure.

 

[shred5]

ORA has quite the selection of fish. Biota is doing some nice work with fish as well. Aquaculture has come a long way. But of course not enough to supply the world for sure.

I know all about Tom Bowling of Biota, I also know about ORA but I would bet those two places are not large enough to support even 10 percent of the hobby just in the US alone right now if we lost everything. The hobby has a ways to go so I hope the rug does not get pulled out. A few successes right now with a few tangs even.. Also with tangs being collected post larval stage and captive raised is a valid option which has little impact..Right now have aqua-cultured tang. Wasn't cheap but also not to bad either and I bet most would pay a little more for them..

I think coral farming can happen quickly because most are relatively easy to do and there are allot out there already along with those that do it out of their basement or garage. .. There will be a loss of allot of corals that are not easy but coral can survive.. Most saltwater fish are dont spawn on a medium like freshwater and are broadcast spawners making them really hard especially since they usually spawn in large groups.

 

[cgdcinc]

I’m with you. It’s my dream to have my own invertebrate aquaculture farm some day.... yeah, it requires tons of money time and effort, but I’m going for it anyway.

And this is how the aquaculture facilities we have now have gotten here. By someone actually doing it. [emoji106]

 

[cgdcinc]

I know all about Tom Bowling of Biota, I also know about ORA but I would bet those two places are not large enough to support even 10 percent of the hobby just in the US alone right now if we lost everything. The hobby has a ways to go so I hope the rug does not get pulled out. A few successes right now with a few tangs even.. Also with tangs being collected post larval stage and captive raised is a valid option which has little impact..Right now have aqua-cultured tang. Wasn't cheap but also not to bad either and I bet most would pay a little more for them..

I think most people wouldn’t mind paying a bit more for livestock that is of better quality when it makes it way to our tanks. Most of us have to save to get equipment and livestock anyway. So we may have to save another week or two. Lol.
I wonder if until some of the wild corals and fish are limited, will more aquaculture start sprouting up?
When the demand is there someone will look to supply.

It would definitely take some time to happen. It’s such a slow process.

 

[VR28man]

I would prefer to buy corals from a farm than have them taken from the ocean.
Just a personal preference.
Fish as well. Even if there were studies that say there are sustainable populations in the ocean. Unless they were outgrowing their environment and it couldn’t sustain the population. Then harvest some to help the corals thrive. Most of my corals were given to me from others fragging their corals, looking for someone to take them.
I know it would be much more expensive to buy corals. We have some great facilities in Florida that do this already.

Again, the problem with aquaculture is that, from a net perspective, that requires a lot of energy and water. While corals are essentially free. Within reason, harvesting of corals is very sustainable.

A very small minority of the species and colors of corals appear in the hobby, because they are not colorful. Porites lobata, allegedly the most common coral in the world, is not available for sale from any coral vendor. Even Pocillopora damicornis, the types availalbe for sale are colorful, whereas the hundreds of P. damicornis I've seen in the wild are not remotely colorful.

Also, I believe that, while frags are generally aquacultured, many colonies come from the wild or from mariculture areas.(I believe availability is also seasonal; I've noticed the number and type of corals and clams available now is expontentially better than a few months ago, I'd imagine for for natural and economic reasons). Again, the individual colonies chosen are selective: the most colorful. (which I believe often are cut up into frags at the retail level when available).

This is completely sustainable, as long as there are catch/harvesting limits. The number of uncolorful individuals of a given species are many times the colorful ones. I believe very little direct retail harvesting of wild corals takes place. Even at the wholesale level, catch (harvest?) limits for wild corals, or reliance on maricultured (grown in the sea) can mitigate much of the danger to wild populations.

Fish is a whole different bag. I again think that some species like clowns can be easily aquacultured, but others have a life cycle that's very difficult to commercially aquaculture (assuming you knew how). Again, I think for wild species, international catch limits are the way to go, and careful monitoring at the wholesale level. (to say nothing of ensuring the amount of die off is minimized......)

I think most people wouldn’t mind paying a bit more for livestock that is of better quality when it makes it way to our tanks.

I don't know about "most people". But I'm definitely in this category.

 

[freshy&salty]

Ironically, the way we are and have poisoned the oceans, I personally feel in our lifetime we may see its death and the coral we have in our tanks now will be the only way kids will get to see what "used to grow wild" before we killed it. The GBR is 60% bleached right now and as far as I know is on track to guaranteed be completely bleached in the next 10 yrs. Its the irony of the "ban" to protect coral. Protecting corals from people trying to grow and increase the coral population.

 

[Breadman03]

Has anyone from the industry, aquarium specific, begun to create any type of trade group to lobby on it's own behalf.

I'm not sure on that, but MASNA might.