Interceptor Destruction.

[Acroholic]

A regular dose is enough to kill red bugs. But we do 2-3 treatments over the course of one month, that way you are sure to get everything. Acro crabs (except the furry ones) are beneficial to the corals. Kinda weird that you guys are so anti-crustacean. Must be a guy thing.

We've found out the hard way that nuking a tank to kill a pest can cause very big problems for corals, not just critters. We dosed Furan 2 for zoo pox hard for 3 days and even did water changes. Well, nearly all of my really nice high end zoo collection bleached and several have died.

Treating corals in moderation is better even if you have to do it more times.

What most members of my local club have found is that one treatment at the dosage I described takes care of all the redbugs. Multiple treatments were initially recommended at 1 week intervals, but it was found that Redbugs don't have an egg stage and give birth to live young. What I have seen in larger shrimps and crabs is that most are not affected by a single treatment at the large breed pill (23 mg interceptor) per 400 net gallons conentration. But hit them at this dosage three weeks straight and you will kill most/all of them.

Liken it to exposing a human to a sublethal dose of poison three times in a row. First time you may get sick but recover. Second time you are still recovering from the first exposure, so you may get sicker and die or you may get sicker and then recover. Third time you are so beaten down from the first two exposures that you die.

I saw that happening in my own tank the first time I treated for redbugs and did it three times in a row. I had crabs and shrimp that lived the thru the first treatment, some died in the second, and all were dead by the third. Then Reefers started reporting that they got all the Redbugs with one treatment, and it came out about there not being an egg stage. So why OD it if you kill things you don't have to or don't want to?

I'm not a marine biologist, but I am a Registered Nurse, and have some understanding of the way medications work. The above is my experience.

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

That dosing level came from Dustin at ORA. He originated the use of Interceptor for Redbug treatment in reef tanks.

He originated one ("large") pill per 380 gallons. Borneman refined it stating that corals can handle dosages up to (and over) ten times that with no issues. In his study he found that time of exposure has more effect on kill rate than dosage amount. Dorton originally recommended three seperate treatments of six hours, but Borneman noted that some specimens would make it through that, but not through a longer (12 hour) exposure time.

When I've dosed for them, I would use 5-10 times original dose for 12 hours, and repeat after a week. If we're trying to kill them, might as well make sure to do so.

 

[firsttime]

I did the same thing, 12 hrs, 3 doses, all bugs gone. Still one LARGE hermit crab made it , rest all of crabs died.

 

[SDguy]

It just struck me as cruel and wasteful to kill beneficial stuff with an unneccessarily high dose of the medication. I feel a responsibility to take care of what I place in my tank, whether it be a coral, fish crab or shrimp. Discounting the life of an animal I purchased and placed in my reef, specifically crabs or shrimps, just doesn't seem right. They all have life.

Kinda weird that you guys are so anti-crustacean. Must be a guy thing.

I thought this thread was about overdosing Interceptor, not killing shrimps and crabs. My bad for making that assumption, and not realizing people would equate the two things. I would have been happy to just have differing opinions in this thread, but…

While I’m hoping it wasn’t your intention, I think inferring that I am irresponsible with, or even worse, purposely cruel to the animals in my care is pretty uncalled for.

First (and I assumed this would go without saying, but apparently not…) REMOVE all shrimps and crabs prior to treatment. Look, if I could take the time to remove harlequins, golden CBS, cleaners, and even a pocci crab, then so can you

Next, I frankly think I am the more responsible one, by removing the desirable crustaceans, and using a stronger dose of Interceptor. If one wants to rely on a dose that is supposedly high enough to kill redbugs, yet not quite high enough to kill larger arthropods, that’s their choice. I personally am not comfortable with the variables such as calculating exact system volume (good luck), homogeneity of the medication in the water (factoring flow in/around corals), and efficacy of the medication in the extremely variable chemical/biological soup that is your reef tank water. My responsibility is the safety of my ornamental shrimps and crabs AND the complete eradication of redbugs in my system. If I have to overdose to be sure I’m overcoming what I believe to be important unknown/uncontrollable variables, then I think it is the responsible thing to do.

 

[Acroholic]

He originated one ("large") pill per 380 gallons. Borneman refined it stating that corals can handle dosages up to (and over) ten times that with no issues. In his study he found that time of exposure has more effect on kill rate than dosage amount. Dorton originally recommended three seperate treatments of six hours, but Borneman noted that some specimens would make it through that, but not through a longer (12 hour) exposure time.

Fine for corals, but not for all the unnecessary collateral damage you will do to other life in the tank, like crabs and shrimps. I've treated my 500 gallon net volume system twice for redbugs in 2 1/2 years, both times at the 23 mg/400 gallon concentration for 8 hours each time. Both times the redbugs were killed and both times I did not unnecessarily kill the larger crustaceans in the system.

When I've dosed for them, I would use 5-10 times original dose for 12 hours, and repeat after a week. If we're trying to kill them, might as well make sure to do so.

If you don't mind killing other things in your system. That's what is sad, snuffing out the life of shrimp and crabs that aren't hurting the SPS when it is not necessary. Worse is the general attitude that it is OK to do so.

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

Fine for corals, but not for all the unnecessary collateral damage you will do to other life in the tank, like crabs and shrimps. I've treated my 500 gallon net volume system twice for redbugs in 2 1/2 years, both times at the 23 mg/400 gallon concentration for 8 hours each time. Both times the redbugs were killed and both times I did not unnecessarily kill the larger crustaceans in the system.

The very first time I treated for Tegastes acroporanus was in a friends tank, and it was quite obvious that some made it through the initial 6 hour dose (following Dorton's regime). After the third dose none were seen, however he did get them again later on - now if this was re-introduction or they were never irradicated to begin with is unknown.

Why did you have to treat twice? Were they re-introduced, or not killed off the first time?

If you don't mind killing other things in your system. That's what is sad, snuffing out the life of shrimp and crabs that aren't hurting the SPS when it is not necessary. Worse is the general attitude that it is OK to do so.

Personally I've not lost anything while treating less some pods (and I certainly didn't lose all of them). I've had Lysmata amboinensis in my aquarium while needing to treat, and I simply removed them prior to treatment. I did have a Mithrax sculptus that I couldn't get out (removed the other couple though), and he made it through a 10X dose. I don't keep hermits.

I really don't think anyone is advocating the killing of shrimp and crabs here. I would not recommend going "light" on the dosage though, if you have animals that will be harmed, remove them, and reintroduce once the Milbemycin Oxime has been removed from the water column.

 

[Acroholic]

Why did you have to treat twice? Were they re-introduced, or not killed off the first time?

Reintroduced a year later on a frag from a friend's tank that had never had issue. Got lazy and should have done an Interceptor bath like I usually do.

 

[Acroholic]

I thought this thread was about overdosing Interceptor, not killing shrimps and crabs. My bad for making that assumption, and not realizing people would equate the two things. I would have been happy to just have differing opinions in this thread, but…

This is a thread about overdosing interceptor. The effects on animals in the tank is related and on topic.

While I’m hoping it wasn’t your intention, I think inferring that I am irresponsible with, or even worse, purposely cruel to the animals in my care is pretty uncalled for.

IMO, if you have a crab or shrimp survive, then who's to say you didn't have a red bug survive. It's all or nothin' in my book!

You wrote both of these. So which is it? Your second statement says that if all your crabs and shrimp don't die from being treated with Interceptor you can't be sure you killed all the redbugs. All or nothin'. Doesn't sound too humane to me.

At $20 per pill, I'd rather just overdose, and lose a few shrimp/crabs, than depend on, quite honestly, not quite laboratory determined guidelines.

Anther humane statement.

 

[SDguy]

You wrote both of these. So which is it? Your second statement says that if all your crabs and shrimp don't die from being treated with Interceptor you can't be sure you killed all the redbugs. All or nothin'. Doesn't sound too humane to me.

It is a representative statement of the dosage I would recommend. It is simply my opinion that if your are dosing interceptor at a level that a shrimp would survive, you are not doing enough. I never said to go out and kill your shrimp, or NOT to remove them prior to dosing. Isn't this the first thing people are told to do prior to treatement? An experienced reefer such as yourself surely knows this without having to be told. Again, I assumed wrong, hence my comment:
"First (and I assumed this would go without saying, but apparently not…) REMOVE all shrimps and crabs prior to treatment. Look, if I could take the time to remove harlequins, golden CBS, cleaners, and even a pocci crab, then so can you."

What is your point in this thread anyways? To not kill desireable ornamental shrimps and crabs? Guess what, we agree 100%. How we go about it is what we disagree on. So let's get off the cruelty to animals tangent, shall we? It's really unfortunate that we can't simply disagree on how much interceptor to use, instead of having animal cruelty accusations thrown around.

 

[wishntoboutside]

A regular dose is enough to kill red bugs. But we do 2-3 treatments over the course of one month, that way you are sure to get everything. Acro crabs (except the furry ones) are beneficial to the corals. Kinda weird that you guys are so anti-crustacean. Must be a guy thing.

We've found out the hard way that nuking a tank to kill a pest can cause very big problems for corals, not just critters. We dosed Furan 2 for zoo pox hard for 3 days and even did water changes. Well, nearly all of my really nice high end zoo collection bleached and several have died.

Treating corals in moderation is better even if you have to do it more times.

plus one on this. personally I think the intercepter treatment is over used and often thought as a fix everything type pill. If this were more available to reefers I am sure it would be abused just as much as hmm vicodine and other perscription drugs that abused by many. =).

 

[inactive]

...........

 

[Acroholic]

Hey kiddies, lets chill out a little bit on the interceptor debate.

If you would like to throw pee filled water balloons at each other about the pros and cons of interceptor dosages/sizes, please... start a interceptor debate thread. Better yet, you guys should figure out how we can get this on the regular...

I don't want to hear about precious little CUC members that may bite dust when I dose... The point of me dosing interceptor in the first place is to save coral that are worth much more than a bunch of critters in my tank.


There is going to be nothing "humane" about unlawfully obtaining prescription medication to cast genocide inside of box of water full of animals and rocks stripped from their natural ecosystem.

</end thread>

Sorry if you don't wan to hear other's opinions on the subject, but what do you think you'll get when you start a thread in a public forum? And unless RevH sold you this site and you've rewritten the rules, anyone can comment in any thread if their post is not in violation of Forum Rules. You started this thread, but you don't own it.

Anyone can rationalize killing living things in their care...point is you don't have to to successfully treat Redbugs in your system to save your corals. That is my own experience in using Interceptor.

But outside the PETA rant, you can get Interceptor legally thru your Veterinarian. Vets can prescribe it outside it's intended use based on their discretion. I got mine thru a Veterinarian. Six of the large breed pills for about $53.

 

[inactive]

......

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

ARG...................

Why do I feel like I have to baby sit all the time now?

Let me say that R2R does not condone the killing of any reef animals or creatures. Next let me say that we don't condone treating each other with disrespect either. This has gotten way off topic and if you want to discuss it in another thread like adults please start a new thread. Otherwise let this off topic banter die please. Thanks.

 

[RZ5T]

Cant believe I actually read this whole thread, LOL. Anyways, does interceptor kill snails?

 

[J&O'sdad]

I am sorry for my ignorance. Is there more than one kind of interceptor. My vet practically broke his legs running to get it for me. The label says flavored, and it is right on the commercial for 1800PetMeds - America's Pet Medication & Pet Supplies Pharmacy. I got the kind for large breed I think it is 51-88 pounds or something like that. Now to sneak it for the tank if I need it without the wife finding out. The stuff is kind of pricey.

 

[J&O'sdad]

Here is what I got.Interceptor Flavor Tabs: Heartworm Medication & Treatment - 1800PetMeds

 

[inactive]

Looks good to me!

 

[inactive]

So..... my SPS is looking awesome again. A baby blue millie that had brown polyps is now a baby blue millie with pink polyps... yayyyy

 

[J&O'sdad]

With a magnifying glass can you see red bugs. A guy was over a while ago and said my colors were a little of just like his. He said he couldn't see the red bugs until a friend brought his macro lens over and took some pictures. I am thinking about treating with interceptor as a precaution. I mean what could it hurt. I have no crabs at all.