Is a self sustained reef tank possible?

[nanomania]

I have some SPS but nothing difficult. I like LPS and soft corals like gorgonians better. My nitrates are very high because I overfeed to keep all my paired fish spawning. If I wanted to keep more SPS I would have to lower my fish load.



This is a year or two ago.

Beautiful...

 

[nanomania]

From experience, there will always be an outside source. It is impossible from the strictest standards. You need light for one. A variable that automatically negates a true self sufficient tank. I believe water changes or supplements would be another negating factor. The nutrients have to come from somewhere. As far as not feeding fish and no water changes are concerned then yes, it is possible. Would need large quantities of water, light, macro algae and additional supplements to sustain as such. I had a 75gal that lost power for over a week. I didn't lose anything and rarely fed the fish then or otherwise but in the end it simply would not maintain itself under those conditions. Even the ocean gains nutrients through sunlight at the very beginning of the system...

Well i keep lights on only for 6hrs (on timer). Had pirchased bleached toadstool and bleqched gbta. Both recovered beautifully. no waterchanges at all, its been 7mnths i guess. Every sunday im supplementing the tank with seachem reef plus, seachem phyto, adv cal and reef builder. Everting i dose is half the recomended dosage. The coralline is pickingup superfast.

 

[roelof]

planning a system like this,as i am about 800 km to closest coastline,will put pics as i go along

 

[reefdweller64]

I think a good balance of fish, rocks, dsb and macro algae is required for this setup. Thats why i posted it.

You keep mentioning dsb , what is that

 

[nanomania]

You keep mentioning dsb , what is that

Deep sand bed. But in sump, not dt.

 

[nanomania]

planning a system like this,as i am about 800 km to closest coastline,will put pics as i go along

Would be great.

 

[Ian Abdilla]

Anyone ever heard of the Jaubert system? Its almost self sustaining

 

[nanomania]

Anyone ever heard of the Jaubert system? Its almost self sustaining

Jaubert is sally joe system?

 

[Ian Abdilla]

Jaubert is sally joe system?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature
https://reefbuilders.com/2008/06/28/how-the-reef-jaubert-system-work-in-aquariums/

 

[nanomania]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/aafeature
https://reefbuilders.com/2008/06/28/how-the-reef-jaubert-system-work-in-aquariums/

Yes, tge plenum method, sally joe uses same method i guess. I learnt about seachem dosing reading it.

 

[Ian Abdilla]

oh... didn't know myself... it's important to have enough depth of sand and in the top 2" you lay a net so that burrowing fish cannot dig any deeper than 2". This method will require a skimmer or algae scrubber or refugium for the first 6 months to deal with nitrates and po4, yet after 6-12 months it will be mature enough to be self sufficient. an important aspect is that it requires an air stone so that po4 and no3 is properly broken down - no need for a sump (if this is done inside the main tank) - just wave pumps and an airstone

 

[SciGuy2]

The only long-term self-sustaining reefs are located in oceans or seas.

 

[nanomania]

U guys need to watch this video:

 

[nanomania]

The only long-term self-sustaining reefs are located in oceans or seas.

This thread was made looking at loads of different types of systems like:

No water changes
No skimmer
Dsb
Plenum
Ats etc.

Well its just a thought, if there is a right balance, it can be done, if not 100%, atleast 80 to 90% Self sustainable.

 

[Val Shebeko]

Doing the same thing now with a deep sand bed. 4 inches of oolite and a protein skimmer that is mostly aereating to control ph. Thinking of turning it off. No big whoop. 125 gal tank. Interested msg me here or join very tiny group on fb .

https://www.facebook.com/groups/278750739139359/

 

[FranklinDattein]

20+ years ago, when I was a teenager and worked with tank maintenance, two customer's tanks were "sled sustainable" for 1 and 2 years. They weren't designed to be self sustainable, but they eventually got neglected and still thrived.
They were both 700l+,SPS dominated, with DSB, 2x400w MH, ato, refuting, skimmer and ca reactor.

Before being neglected, they were solid systems, packed with fish and thriving colonies.

These guys stopped doing any maintenance, apart from refilling the ato container and the result after one year was amazing to watch.
The first year is natural selection, some fishes died some thrived and even reproduced(bangaii).
Most SPS grew up to gigantic sizes and eventually montis(all types) started outgrowing all other corals.
Second year was even more interesting, with colonies so big, they were growing on the front glass.

So, it is possible to run tanks in "auto mode", but the result is what most people consider beautiful.
In their cases, I am certain what made it possible was water volume x bioload, being mature tanks and running on a ca reactor.

 

[SciGuy2]

20+ years ago, when I was a teenager and worked with tank maintenance, two customer's tanks were "sled sustainable" for 1 and 2 years. They weren't designed to be self sustainable, but they eventually got neglected and still thrived.
They were both 700l+,SPS dominated, with DSB, 2x400w MH, ato, refuting, skimmer and ca reactor.

Before being neglected, they were solid systems, packed with fish and thriving colonies.

These guys stopped doing any maintenance, apart from refilling the ato container and the result after one year was amazing to watch.
The first year is natural selection, some fishes died some thrived and even reproduced(bangaii).
Most SPS grew up to gigantic sizes and eventually montis(all types) started outgrowing all other corals.
Second year was even more interesting, with colonies so big, they were growing on the front glass.

So, it is possible to run tanks in "auto mode", but the result is what most people consider beautiful.
In their cases, I am certain what made it possible was water volume x bioload, being mature tanks and running on a ca reactor.

...and then old tank syndrome took over?

 

[FranklinDattein]

...and then old tank syndrome took over?

It didn't. I guess because there was no external food source.

The sandbed was disgusting, though. It'd calcified about 2m and we had to use a hammer to remove it, when it shut down.

 

[Cherished Reefer]

For our plan, after both tanks and sump are established, there should be no need to run the protein skimmer or GFO, however they are in place if needed.
There will not be filter socks on the sump either. In theory the uneaten food will be broken down and recirculated to the display refugium for macro algae and worse case back to main display and eaten.
Going to take some major watching in the early stages to make sure it works like I imagine in my head lol

 

[SantaMonica]

there is no health reason for cleaning the glass

That's the reason I like ponds; no glass. And the periphyton that grows on all the walls adds to the filtering.

You need light for one. A variable that automatically negates a true self sufficient tank

There's an idea: an NPS hands-off tank.

Hey All, I am new to this forum thing

Welcome Steven. From your setup, one thing you might do is have battery powered backup flow to and from the fuge. Macros can absorb ammonia in the dark, so if you power goes out for a few days when you are gone, the macros should keep things alive.

Anyone ever heard of the Jaubert system? Its almost self sustaining

I think the focus is more than just a Jaubert or Berlin. Yes you can just leave them be, but you still must get N and P out. Especially P, which is not going anywhere with just a Jaubert or Berlin by itself. Add some easy to harvest macros or an algae scrubber, and then you are removing P.

it requires an air stone so that po4 and no3 is properly broken down - no need for a sump (if this is done inside the main tank) - just wave pumps and an airstone

N and P do not break down. They build up unless removed. N is easier, but P takes more work.