Is aluminum reef safe?

[AlgaeBarn]

I don’t know if that’s a peltier

It is a peltier (IceProbe Thermoelectric Aquarium Chiller), it's in the name. TEC stands for thermal electric cooler. It's a type of Peltier. It will cool your aquarium slightly and heat your room up greatly :-D. I think the high performing ones have about a 10% efficiency compared to about 45-55% for your average vapor compression cooler (like on your refrigerator)

 

[AlgaeBarn]

i think the rails on my DIY innovative marine screen top are made of aluminum. is this an issue? condensation forms on the bottom of the rails

Most are anodized and have a coating on them. Since they are not changing temperature, the coating will likely stay in place and since they are not constantly submerged (minimized contact and a small amount of aluminum), it will likely be okay. If they are submerged and water is rushing against it, little particles(such as sand) can "scrap" against the coating and remove it, exposing fresh aluminum to the oxidation process.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

What if i took a aluminum liquid cooling block and ran liquid epoxy through it then let it dry think the epoxy would crack

The challenge is the raising and lower of temperature. I'm not sure how you would an create an even layer on the inside on the cooling block. If you did this (and Im not recommending it), you would want to match coefficients of thermal expansion (CTE) of the epoxy with the grade of aluminum you are using. This way they will expand uniformly and not dislodge from each other (if one expands more than the other, it will pop off or crack).

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Those TECs will need something to remove heat from the other side. All that they do is move heat from one side to the other very quickly. You’ll still need to move the heat away from your tank. You don’t want to just blow hot air right back at your tank.

You’ll also need to think about a high power DC PSU for those TECs. Won’t be cheap or easy to find.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Those TECs will need something to remove heat from the other side. All that they do is move heat from one side to the other very quickly. You’ll still need to move the heat away from your tank. You don’t want to just blow hot air right back at your tank.

You’ll also need to think about a high power DC PSU for those TECs. Won’t be cheap or easy to find.

Most computer power supplies push 12V DC and are perfect for TECs (I've setup a couple that way), but 12V power suppliers (around 10Amps) are pretty common, but it ends up looking pretty ugly. Agree with the first part of your post, they generate & move a TON of heat

 

[HCl+NaHO=]

What if i took a aluminum liquid cooling block and ran liquid epoxy through it then let it dry think the epoxy would crack

Did you watch the video I posted?

 

[ourcoralreef]

Did you watch the video I posted?

Not yet didn’t have time working late I’ll watch it soon i take it they mention something like this

 

[ourcoralreef]

Those TECs will need something to remove heat from the other side. All that they do is move heat from one side to the other very quickly. You’ll still need to move the heat away from your tank. You don’t want to just blow hot air right back at your tank.

You’ll also need to think about a high power DC PSU for those TECs. Won’t be cheap or easy to find.

Yes thats why out of the tank cabinet and a good way to retain the cool and a way to remove the heat

They have some cheap options out there not really caring about looks right now

 

[ourcoralreef]

Wish you luck

Show us how you did after you make these


PS. With the Peltier coolers, what would be the contraindication to just mounting to your sump glass?

Lol has allot of similar ideas
The thing is saltwater is corrosive and cooling and heating fluctuations might crack the epoxy coating
Im thinking liquid silicon or the kind of coating they use in coke cans but i need to do a bit more research

This thread has given me some really good ideas and helped me understand things a bit better
I really appreciate all of your help everyone
Im not ending this here this will be a ongoing project once i figure it out ill let everyone know

 

[Stigigemla]

I dont know how You live - in an flat in a big house or if You have a garden of your own. If you have a garden of Your own You can just bury in your garden 2 feet down and there is Your chiller.

In a flat the easiest way is to install an AC in the tank room. I guess it will cost about as much as the Aquarium chiller and You will have a better time without the tank chiller heating up the room.

Another solution is to make a double coil heat exchanger. Take a 1/2 inch hose and insert in a 1 inch hose. Run tank water in the thinner hose and cold water in the thick one but in opposite directions.
30 feet will be good and you can wind them and place them in a big bucket. I had one such going for many years whe I was in the Cichlid bussiness. The small hose must be food grade but not the big one.
Connect the tank thermostate to the cold water supply. ( Washing mashine water solenoid) The tank water in the thin hose must be running 24/7.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Another solution is to make a double coil heat exchanger. Take a 1/2 inch hose and insert in a 1 inch hose. Run tank water in the thinner hose and cold water in the thick one but in opposite directions.
30 feet will be good and you can wind them and place them in a big bucket. I had one such going for many years whe I was in the Cichlid bussiness. The small hose must be food grade but not the big one.
Connect the tank thermostate to the cold water supply. ( Washing mashine water solenoid) The tank water in the thin hose must be running 24/7.

This sounds interesting - what couplings do use at the end of this double hose? Do you have any pictures from when you were running it?

 

[Stigigemla]

I used a standard 1 inch irrigation PEM coil. In the end I had a standard 1 inch PE connector with 1 1/4 inch threading mounted on usual PVC 1 1/4 inch threaded tank connector in the sump for the growout system.
The hose ended in a drain at the water tap where incoming water was led into the thin hose. That hose ended a foot longer into the sump. I had about 55 feet long hose and in the winter with incoming water at 41 degrees and tank water at 77 the water was 72 degrees when it came to the sump. I used about 110 gallons a day so it was a considerable save in heating cost.
The system was payed off in 4 months.

 

[GlassMunky]

Only other viable option is fused silica quartz. Very expensive, for extreme heat and chemically clean applications.

And fused quartz glass is super brittle and easily breaks with physical shock whereas boro is better at physical shock but quartz is better at thermal shock.
I would imagine most people would easily break a quartz coil in normal household fish tank use.

 

[GlassMunky]

Not only would it work,it's nearly the cleanest, least reactive material you could use. Borosilicate "Pyrex" laboratory glass can be easily customized to your size and shape requirements. Search for scientific glass blowing shops in your area. Stop in, in person and talk about what you want to do and I'll bet they will help you out cheaply.
If you were in my area id tell you to stop by my shop, I could have it for you in an hour or so. I've been a scientific glassblower for about 25 years and have countless custom mods or helping tools laying around for aquarium use.

Not to totally drail the thread, but where do you work?
I’ve been a boro lampworker myself for 15 years. Did the scientific glass program at Salem back in 2006 also.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

I guess my question to the OP is what his (or her's) objective is? If the answer is to save money, that's pretty unlikely. It's quite difficult to beat mass manufacturing in that regard, and aquarium chillers and/or room ACs have a massive amount of investment in design for efficiency and cost. And, has been pointed out in the thread, Peltier coolers are really, really inefficient compared to vapor compression cycle refrigeration (by a factor of about 5). The main application for Peltier coolers is where compact form factors, no moving parts and (perhaps) inexpensive manufacturing are far more important than efficiency.

If, on the other hand, the OP's main objective is just a DIY interest, then the project might make sense. It might also make sense if the OP has a ready heat sink that is free or almost free, such as a cold spring on his property.

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

Here's a thought. Your local powder coating shop probably does work for the city and if they do, they will offer about 4 colours of a coating that is particularly resistant to corrosion. They use it to paint large sewer pipes that get buried. You could bend, twist, weld and otherwise tinker with your aluminum and when you finish, just get it powder coated.

 

[pcon]

Here's a thought. Your local powder coating shop probably does work for the city and if they do, they will offer about 4 colours of a coating that is particularly resistant to corrosion. They use it to paint large sewer pipes that get buried. You could bend, twist, weld and otherwise tinker with your aluminum and when you finish, just get it powder coated.

Powder coating is not an appropriate solution. The powder would be highly susceptible to missing large portions of the complex internal spaces. There is also the questions of are the brand of pigments used by the powder coaters reef safe? can they dissolve in saltwater? are the powder coat pigments safe for my fish and corals to eat when they chip off and float through the aquarium? these are big questions with powder coating which little information exists, and can vary from mfg to mfg.
On aluminum, anodizing would be a far better suggestion, even then, anodizing does not render aluminum reef safe it is still liable to corrode.

The toxicity of metals such as Aluminum, Iron, and Copper is well documented in both scientific and hobby literature. As explained by others above, such elements can leach into the water from contact with a "actual piece." In the long run it is not a good idea to rely on a coating which cannot be regularly examined, for integrity, to prevent toxic elements from entering our tanks. All such coatings are susceptible to, incorrect application, damage from abrasion of the water, and thermal stress damage, possibly leaving gaps in coating for corrosion to occur. Without the ability to regularly inspect the coated surfaces such as in a long bent tube, it's a ticking time bomb, with a random fuse.

If you want metal why not just titanium tube? It is a little harder to find but not impossible. The right alloys are reef safe. It's far easier to work at home with limited experience and without the proper tools, as compared to glass.

 

[ourcoralreef]

I guess my question to the OP is what his (or her's) objective is? If the answer is to save money, that's pretty unlikely. It's quite difficult to beat mass manufacturing in that regard, and aquarium chillers and/or room ACs have a massive amount of investment in design for efficiency and cost. And, has been pointed out in the thread, Peltier coolers are really, really inefficient compared to vapor compression cycle refrigeration (by a factor of about 5). The main application for Peltier coolers is where compact form factors, no moving parts and (perhaps) inexpensive manufacturing are far more important than efficiency.

If, on the other hand, the OP's main objective is just a DIY interest, then the project might make sense. It might also make sense if the OP has a ready heat sink that is free or almost free, such as a cold spring on his property.

Its definitely from a diy prospective
It was a idea that i would like to figure out to share with others that want to diy there are many people that have smaller systems that don’t want or need a chiller they just need to bring their tanks down a couple degrees, space is also a big factor, the little to no moving parts and no need to refill and low voltage are also things that i like about it

Ps. i personally don’t need a chiller as there is always someone home and they would keep the house at a comfortable temperature

 

[Dkeller_nc]

I can think of a few ways to build something like this. I vaguely remember posts on the reefing forums of people running pico cold-water tanks with what amounted to a Hagen Aquaclear filter with a peltier cooler attached to it. Apparently, there's a commercial version of something like this for nanos - here's a Reefbuilders link to it.

One other thought might be to employ the components that folks use for DIY water-cooled setups for computers. The fans running across the heat exchanger might be enough if the room temperature's a few degrees below the tank temp, and would have the advantage over directly blowing fans across the tank water of not increasing the room humidity. It wouldn't surprise me if the DIY computer cooling sector also offers a setup where the radiator is peltier-cooled instead of fan-cooled.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a NO METAL rule. Try stainless hose clamps and see what happens within 6 weeks- RUST !!!