Is anyone else just... failing?

[lucyretz]

Do you really dose bleach?

Yeah. Very low dose twice a day. It’s working and shockingly my corals have crazy PE. I wouldn’t do it if I had fish in the tank tho. I don’t recommend it tho, I understand it’s a risk. My good friend did the same to his SPS tank when he got Dino so I’m just following what he did.

 

[vetteguy53081]

failure is always possible. Use trusted persons and sources for advice. Best off all. . . . Buy the best equipment you can Possibly afford even if it requires a small loan but don't cheat yourself or inhabitants on GOOD equipment. AND . . . .> > > > GO . . . S L O W L Y !!!

 

[MnFish1]

The hydrozoan problem is a recent development. It is likely they came in with the live rock 2 months ago, but only recently exploded in population since I added the copperband butterfly and started dropping frozen blocks of food in the tank that don't always get eaten entirely (so nutrients on the rise). Before that, I fed pellets only to the clowns, who gobbled up every last bite instantly so the tank was pretty clean.

I had been told that I might be starving the corals, so I dosed stump remover daily for about a month, raising my Nitrates to 2.5-5.0 ppm. It made no difference. But I never tried anything that raised phosphates. The SPS are pale and have thin appearance, all except for the monti which has been doing well for whatever reason, although it's not growing.

None of the frags are maricultured, all have come from other hobbyists tanks, except for 2 from the LFS which I have no idea where they came from, I guess originally maricultured. Which, now that I think of it, are the only 2 that have survived this long.

Flow is an mp40 on reef crest. Used to be 2 mp10's. Should be enough for a 57 g, seems like a whole lot of flow in there.

If you are adding 'live rock' (2 months ago) - then IMHO, you are probably re-cycling - ie., your tank isn't 'a year old'. its 2 months old (depending on how much rock was added and how much was there initially). Everytime you add 'something' the tank needs to adjust - and chemicals/toxins are produced and that can start some of the issues you have. I started having much more success when I stopped adding things every couple weeks - but just let the stuff in the tank 'grow'. I would never add a new piece of 'live rock' to my established tank. Good luck with your tank though

 

[Gaines69]

I seem to have terrible luck with peppermint shrimp. My mandarin and other fish are thriving. My pistol shrimp and my coral banded shrimp are thriving but for some reason my peppermint shrimp keep disappearing. Before Harvey the pair I had were constantly having babies and growing and active. Since I moved my tank to a friends house I have lost four. I just upgraded the lighting and have mushrooms growing ( came on live rock I didn’t get them on purpose lol) but no ps. Makes me scared to try reef instead of FOWLR.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Just started up my 35g cube in October with dry pukani rock. Zoas take weeks to open up after going in the tank. Acans seem to be fine for a while but I just had one melt. My monti digi is doing ok, but is a bit pale. My bonsai acro all but ditched in a week or two. Bad case of STN. The one thing I can grow like a weed is cyano. Cyano all over the place. I've got chemiclean ordered and a good amount of GFO in a reactor. Dry rock is the devil. I absolutely hate hate hate starting a tank with it, and this is my only reef tank I've started with dry rock. My 14g nano was started with live rock from an LFS and it kept and grew SPS no problem from day one. I had a little problem with bubble algae and vermetids, but both of those were easily taken care of. I'll NEVER start another tank with dry rock... I'm going to get my own live rock curing station going here soon in the garage and buy a few pieces of really good old live rock to start it going then add in a bunch of pieces I want for my next build.

 

[EJReef]

The hydrozoan problem is a recent development. It is likely they came in with the live rock 2 months ago, but only recently exploded in population since I added the copperband butterfly and started dropping frozen blocks of food in the tank that don't always get eaten entirely (so nutrients on the rise). Before that, I fed pellets only to the clowns, who gobbled up every last bite instantly so the tank was pretty clean.

I had been told that I might be starving the corals, so I dosed stump remover daily for about a month, raising my Nitrates to 2.5-5.0 ppm. It made no difference. But I never tried anything that raised phosphates. The SPS are pale and have thin appearance, all except for the monti which has been doing well for whatever reason, although it's not growing.

None of the frags are maricultured, all have come from other hobbyists tanks, except for 2 from the LFS which I have no idea where they came from, I guess originally maricultured. Which, now that I think of it, are the only 2 that have survived this long.

Flow is an mp40 on reef crest. Used to be 2 mp10's. Should be enough for a 57 g, seems like a whole lot of flow in there.

Increasing the nitrate likely drove the phoephate to 0. I’ve been having problems with SPS dying once phosphate becomes depleted.

 

[MnFish1]

I can’t prove it but think this is a function of using dry rock. My tank is 15 months old and up until the one year mark I experienced the exact same problems. Other than low nutrients (which I now dose KNO3 for) my parameters were all perfect. But SPS either failed to thrive or outright RTN’d.

It’s just been in the last few months that things have improved. Acros and montis are colorful and growing and the few pieces that survived the last year, which all failed to grow at all, are showing good growth.

I’ve got no idea what the reason behind it is, but I’ve read many similar accounts from folks who started with dry rock. I think it just takes a lot more time to establish a stable system when you start dry. The good news is that, at least from how things stand in my tank now, it appears that patience pays off.

And people that started with Live rock have had RTN/STN as well. (raises hand). Its the patience that is the key IMHO. Unless someone can tell me the secret ingredient that is in 'live rock' vs 'dead rock' - Im not sure it matters - what does matter is that bacteria and other colonization of dead rock takes a lot longer than with live rock (maybe) - unless the 'liv rock' has a lot of stuff that dies - and that starts a vicious cycle in the tank. If I were to start a new tank - I would use dead rock - and add stuff slowly - including lots of bacterial supplements at first. The first coral or invert (cleaner crew even) will add bacteria to the tank - and it will go to where its supposed to be.

 

[cracker]

Last setup I used 1/2 live rock,1/2 dry base. It's working out so far ! Regardless thru the frustration ,I'm determined ! Hey if it was easy it wouldn't be any fun .

 

[fredjr]

Its almost funny, I have 2 tanks; a RedSea 525XL that is 1 year old yesterday and a WaterBox 75 that is close to 3 months old. Softies and fish do amazing in the 525, but put a piece of SPS in there and its a death sentence, despite having the right light, flow, water parameters etc. Trust me when I say no one can figure out the curse of the that tank...The 3 month old WaterBox has about a dozen SPS frags in it, each one is colorful and encrusting like crazy! Acros, Montis, etc seem to be thriving! Same lights, same basic flow, only difference is I started the WaterBox with LIVE ROCK.

One would think after 1 year the rock in the RedSea would be totally okay now, maybe it is but I still can't figure out why SPS dies when it goes in that tank!

Love this hobby!

Man I have the same problem with my Red sea 350

 

[MnFish1]

Just started up my 35g cube in October with dry pukani rock. Zoas take weeks to open up after going in the tank. Acans seem to be fine for a while but I just had one melt. My monti digi is doing ok, but is a bit pale. My bonsai acro all but ditched in a week or two. Bad case of STN. The one thing I can grow like a weed is cyano. Cyano all over the place. I've got chemiclean ordered and a good amount of GFO in a reactor. Dry rock is the devil. I absolutely hate hate hate starting a tank with it, and this is my only reef tank I've started with dry rock. My 14g nano was started with live rock from an LFS and it kept and grew SPS no problem from day one. I had a little problem with bubble algae and vermetids, but both of those were easily taken care of. I'll NEVER start another tank with dry rock... I'm going to get my own live rock curing station going here soon in the garage and buy a few pieces of really good old live rock to start it going then add in a bunch of pieces I want for my next build.

Curious - the 'curing process' for the live rock. What does it remove - as compared to adding 'dry rock' and letting the bacteria slowly populate it. There is nothing sacred about 'dry' or 'live rock'. Its the bacteria inside the nooks and crannies that is the benefit - and either one should work as well.

I compare the concept of 'cured' live rock to 'a piece of live rock direct from the ocean'. They are 2 totally different things. I see no difference between cured live rock and dry rock thats allowed to populate with bacteria. Id be interested in your comments/evidence that the rock you're using is the 'cause' of the problems you are having..

 

[acro-ed]

I would suggesting looking up Sanjay Yoshi and Mike from American reefing had a similar struggle. If you don't know either of their names then look them up also, as they have basically been founders of the hobby. They both, on completely separate systems, were unable to grow SPS until they had at least 50% live rock. They both started new tanks and used 100% dry rock and couldn't keep any SPS. I tried looking up the article, but couldn't find it tonight. I know it's also mentioned in one of their youtube videos on Mike's 90 gallon build.

My current SPS tank was started from 100% dry dead rock that I acid bathed and cured. It is almost 2 years old now. I will admit that I had a ton of problems my first year, but it’s doing great now (60+ different acros all growing great and the rocks are candy coated purple). I just wanted to point out that starting from dry rock does not prevent a successful tank, though it may have cost me more time until reaching a point of success.

Like others I have had successful tanks and others that weren’t as successful. One of my most successful tanks was 20 years ago with tap water, Fiji live rock, and VHO’s (and hardly a clue as to what I was doing; going off of reading books written in the early 90’s). Both of my tanks now are successful but I’ve had to learn a lot of hard lessons paid for with many years and thousands of dollars.

I am convinced that my early struggles with my current tank (including Dino’s, which are now 100% eliminated) are the same as the original poster is dealing with here.... too much light and alk and too low bioload/diversity/nutrients.

-Ed

 

[MnFish1]

BTW - drop a piece of 'dry rock' in the ocean for a month it is now 'live rock'. The same thing happens in tanks. But I do believe you need bacterial supplementation.

 

[Betty1964]

I am fighting a losing battle with cyano and GHA. Some days I refuse to look at my tank at all...too darn depressing.

 

[xCry0x]

I've been killing SPS frags in my tank for nearly 7 years now. You aren't alone

It's all learning.

Heck, I just now found out that I am not supposed to strip all the nutrients from my tank and aim for 0 nitrate 0 phosphate.

I am also still trying to figure out how the **** to get rid of this red turf algae that has been the bane of my tank's existence for the past 2 years.

 

[Jr'sReef]

Look at it as you have figured out ways that haven't worked, unfortunately those with thriving tanks have gone through battles with their own tanks to get them where they are. It's really a great hobby because the knowledge you gain is never ending and can be put to things outside of our little reefs.
You may want to keep a close eye on your butterfly fish depending what corals you are putting in. Also was the tank new? Where the rocks bought from a trusted source? I second getting the tank tested. I've had good results using polyfilter to filter my water on a tank that I couldn't get inverts or corals to live. That may be an easy option to try
Best of luck and keep us posted with results for anyone with your same problems in the future

 

[xCry0x]

I am fighting a losing battle with cyano and GHA. Some days I refuse to look at my tank at all...too darn depressing.

I had Cyano once -- Chemiclean cleared it up for me and it never came back.

 

[Ranjib]

I think what you have mentioned here , pretty much what I struggled with first two years (cyano , sps failures ). One thing is very obvious , you are doing too many things too fast . First couple of years can be hard , particularly if too many changes are made , for sps.

The time frame is certainly not long enough to call it sps failure . There are folks who grow sps in 3 months into colonies, but most are not them, and that’s cool too .

I am learning sps husbandry myself, I can keep some milipora now, but not red dragon (does not die, just hangs in there ). I had to change my expectations and slow down 8 months back, after the first batch of sps all died

My advice will be to come up with a strategy and stick to it. An example will be , you rethink no3/po4 levels and do icp testing, checks par etc, then I wait a month and then start with a birds nest

 

[Cory]

Imo these are the three most important things. Get the parameters right. Use a good light. And feed everything well.

There are way too many points of failure we dont know about. Think of all the salt mixes that can be off. Right off the start your in the negative.

 

[Scott.h]

In my experience staring with dry rock will ruin the first year as far as it takes a tank about a year longer to mature if you go that route. If you are ok with easy corals it's ok, but difficult corals it's very hard to keep until about the 10 month mark.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Curious - the 'curing process' for the live rock. What does it remove - as compared to adding 'dry rock' and letting the bacteria slowly populate it. There is nothing sacred about 'dry' or 'live rock'. Its the bacteria inside the nooks and crannies that is the benefit - and either one should work as well.

I compare the concept of 'cured' live rock to 'a piece of live rock direct from the ocean'. They are 2 totally different things. I see no difference between cured live rock and dry rock thats allowed to populate with bacteria. Id be interested in your comments/evidence that the rock you're using is the 'cause' of the problems you are having..

100% dry uncured pukani... cycled in tank for one month until ammonia and nitrates were 0. Nitrates were around 20, but they came down very quickly with macro algae and water changes. I now know my rock is a huge nutrient sink that's slowly releasing junk into my tank. Cyano is currently taking it all up as my nutrient levels are 2ppm nitrate and 0ppm phosphate. I know there are a lot more nutrients in the tank because I have crazy cyano growth. It's growing streamers and flowing in the current like GHA does. I've honestly gotten tired of manual removal. I've got chemiclean coming to get rid of it, and GFO to absorb any phosphates that come out of the dead cyano. My chaeto has reduced itself to a rotting lump of muck in the sump, and I threw it out. I haven't given up, and I will beat it and learn from it. That's what this hobby is about, right?

The live rock I can get comes out of the ocean in Florida, and is in a huge trough at a LFS across town from me here in SC. When I set up my nano with it I saw no cycle at all and it kept SPS thriving from day one. Fast forward 9 months when I moved everything over to my cube and experienced RTN overnight and lost EVERYTHING.

I'm going to buy myself one of those huge troughs, heater, pump, ect... and a few pieces of that ocean rock to start seeding the rock I want to use in my next build I'm planning. If I throw ocean rock in a tub with some dry rock, I figure in about 6 months or so it should be all "ocean rock."

I'd like a tank with all tonga branch and shelf, I've been picturing this build in my head for a year now. Still deciding if I want dry ocean rock or that fake man made rock to seed.